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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#511

Post by Aeolun »

autoexec wrote: post #212
Aeolun wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the tried and true “Your salary offer is too low compared to your competitors, or what I can do for myself” is pretty much fine right?

Until the moment companies once again collude to drive and hold prices down. Suddenly those competitors aren't too low after all and the "tried and true" isn't so useful. Corporations have enough staff that they can lay off hundreds or thousands of workers without a single worry. They can hold out not paying you the rate you want for much longer than you can afford not paying your bills and eating. Eventually, you wi…

You need only one company to not go along to hoover up all the great talent.

The large problem with the collusion before was that the 3-4 that already paid top of the market salaries colluded to keep them the same. It doesn’t mean they weren’t still top of the market for someone with a given level of experience.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#512

Post by [deleted] »

prewett wrote: post #431
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Market" is just another way of saying "Power differential." Most corporate cultures are inherently authoritarian, with money being used as a proxy for power. Empirically there is plenty of evidence that given a choice, many businesses would rather maintain the power differential and complain about "lack of applicants" than increase pay and suffer a corresponding diminution of authority. Stock is an even more specifi…

> "Market" is just another way of saying "Power differential." Oh come on. This is a cynical or Marxist take, but it's pretty obviously untrue. A flea market, farmers market, FB marketplace doesn't have a substantial power imbalance. A market may have a power imbalance, but it is not required. People can exchange goods/services at equal power, and routinely do so. And if I understand economics correctly, that's the p…

[deleted]

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#513

Post by brigandish »

nikau wrote: post #279
brigandish wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There certainly are bullshit jobs and people doing valuable roles in bullshit ways, but Graeber’s claim that more than half of societal work is bullshit is also clearly bullshit, and not just because I read some of the book and sighed heavily before putting it down, but also because of claims like this that I didn’t see in the book but are in the Wikipedia page: > duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could…

I've dealt with lots of code which could be fixed permanently - ie. put in proper error handling and rearchitect to be robust and maintenance free. More so than ever with the push for MVP and agile ticket stat chasing.

MVP's are supposed to be temporary, that's a weird cherry pick. Regardless, code is contextual and relies on so many things other than its own quality at the time of that assessment being made that to say it's been fixed permanently, as if there's some Platonic ideal code that can be written, is, in my view, something I'd only hear from someone new to the industry or not in the industry at all, like Graeber. The job is about solving problems in the clearest way possible over time, not once. Managing change is of central importance. If your product is good, it will change. If it changes, bugs will inevitably be introduced. That's not shoddy practice or the fault of some poor architecture decision.

I imagine that the only bug that gets fixed "permanently" is in a product that nobody uses enough for it to need change. Like some failed MVPs.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#514

Post by _madmax_ »

pelasaco wrote: post #487
red-iron-pine wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation needed. no shortage of threads here or reddit or elsewhere: "new guy got hired and they;re making 10k more than me and I've been here 5 years" and the like. there is a reason jumping every 2-3 years gives a better raise than sitting in the same job.

> new guy got hired and they;re making 10k more than me and I've been here 5 years Your mistake is to assume that you (being there 5 year) is doing your work well and over the expectations, becoming an important piece to your team. Important enough that your manager wants to secure you as part of the team. Maybe you are just average. Regardless of being 2, 5 or 10 years there.

> Important enough that your manager wants to secure you as part of the team

I guess that can happen. I suspect in the majority of cases, you keep your shitpay even if you become a supremely efficient pillar.

Employers are not friends, they're businesses who thinks like psychopaths, so manage your expectations and get as much money as you can from them. You need them but they need you, so get the juice and move on when it gets hairy.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#515

Post by givemeethekeys »

m000 wrote: post #135
givemeethekeys wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companies out there stating that remote is "complicated" It's complicated because a large number of managers haven't figured out how to manage a remote team.

I think it is complicated because a large number of management jobs are "bullshit" (see [1]). I.e. they could be eliminated, and productivity would not be affected, or it could even be improved. Remote work does an exposé on the usefulness of these roles. And of course, those holding them, would be eager for everyone to return to the office work theater. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs

The responsibilities of a manager are necessary.

Whether we hire a dedicated manager or have the responsibility rotate among teammates really depends on a bunch of factors both internal and external to the team / company.

Most people who get a job in America (can't speak for other places) are not interested in managing. It's too messy. If more doers took on management work - we'd be able to push out shitty managers. Until that happens though, my recommendation is to immediately move to a different team or company as soon as a shitty manager is installed.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#516

Post by JohnFen »

PM_me_your_math wrote: post #510
JohnFen wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Proof of it is in the pay rates of CEOs.

How do you figure? The CEO and a process employee of the company have two entirely different roles.

I think it defies belief that the highest-paid CEOs bring so much value to their company that it covers their salaries and other compensation. They are, to me, a clear indication that compensation rates are only loosely correlated to value.

There is some correlation, don't get me wrong, but it looks like people are generally undervalued at the low end of the compensation spectrum and overvalued at the high end.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#517

Post by Shaggy2000 »

The World Economic Forum have stated in a white paper that Corporations and Governments will be expected as part of climate action to help move more people into cities. So that "15 minute cities" legislation can be implemented world wide. This appears to be nothing but a long term climate lockdown. I personally think that to have everyone working locally in these 15 minute zones in each major city and to have them never leave the zone would require that remote work is the norm beforehand. If people think that remote work equals freedom they are in for one hell of a shock.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#518

Post by pelasaco »

_madmax_ wrote: post #514
pelasaco wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> new guy got hired and they;re making 10k more than me and I've been here 5 years Your mistake is to assume that you (being there 5 year) is doing your work well and over the expectations, becoming an important piece to your team. Important enough that your manager wants to secure you as part of the team. Maybe you are just average. Regardless of being 2, 5 or 10 years there.

> Important enough that your manager wants to secure you as part of the team I guess that can happen. I suspect in the majority of cases, you keep your shitpay even if you become a supremely efficient pillar. Employers are not friends, they're businesses who thinks like psychopaths, so manage your expectations and get as much money as you can from them. You need them but they need you, so get the juice and move on wh…

I don't assume that we are friends, but your manager knows who performs and who doesn't. So it's matter of saving his own head. So, become effective and expert and so you will always be able to get your salary corrected..and if doesn't work, you are ready to go out and search for something new

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#519

Post by scotty79 »

paulcole wrote: post #508
scotty79 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My idea is that you report to the government that you want to hire me. And I contact the government with the information where I live. You suggest how much you are willing to pay me to the government. And I get information how much I'll be earning after taxes and required social security fees. If I don't agree or the amount you proposed is illegally low then I can't work for you until you decide to bump up the salary…

I’m with you here. When I want a process to be completed in less than an afternoon, I often add several interactions with a governmental agency to the mix in order to speed things along.

You might not have much of it in the US but once those interactions are moved online they can be very quick and effective. Tax forms for example. It's common in other countries for the tax to be calculated for you, then you can just log in, chcek it out and confirm or adjust, which can be done for free in about 10 minutes while eating a burger.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#520

Post by scotty79 »

paulcole wrote: post #496
scotty79 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, should it be like that? Shouldn't government handle the legal differences between states so that employers don't have to deal with that?

You're kind of asking what's the point of having states and that's a fair question, but one that's been long decided. As long as you've got states with the power to make their own rules, people who want to live in and do business in those states will have to follow those rules (this is theoretically one of the biggest benefits of states existing).

Having states and different rules is fine however if you have that, single point of contact which knows all the rules for you might be immensely useful.
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