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Why is remote work seen as a gift?

cdoyle.me

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Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#501

Post by danaris »

eru wrote: post #494
danaris wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things can be true at the same time: both "Normal people in the western world are better off than they were at any/nearly any given time in the past." and "There is a staggering amount of wealth inequality in the western world right now, and there are very concerning signs about what it is doing to our politics, economy, and culture."

Global inequality has been going down at a tremendous rate over the last few decades. (Mostly by China and to a lesser extent India going from dirt poor to middle income.) Not sure what you mean 'what it is doing to our politics, economy, and culture.'? All those are doing ok as far as I can tell. At least not worse than in the past.

Global inequality, yes.

I'm talking about inequality within the developed nations—specifically, the US (I believe it also affects the UK; I don't feel qualified to talk about such effects beyond that, due to lack of information).

As for what's happening with our politics...if you can't see that the current situation is wildly different than it was 40, 20, or even 10 years ago, then I'm sorry, but you have not been paying close attention. We have people proclaiming themselves as actual literal neo-Nazis storming the Capitol building in an attempted coup, in open collaboration with certain members of Congress and the wife of a sitting Supreme Court judge. And while some of the people involved in the Jan 6 coup attempt are, indeed, being convicted as they should be, to my knowledge, none of the politicians who are complicit have been publicly investigated. This is not normal, it is not healthy, and while it is not entirely due to the increasing wealth inequality, to claim that that has no part in the level of polarization today and the rise of extremism...well, it would be an extraordinary claim, and thus require extraordinary evidence to support it.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#502

Post by eru »

danaris wrote: post #501
eru wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Global inequality has been going down at a tremendous rate over the last few decades. (Mostly by China and to a lesser extent India going from dirt poor to middle income.) Not sure what you mean 'what it is doing to our politics, economy, and culture.'? All those are doing ok as far as I can tell. At least not worse than in the past.

Global inequality, yes. I'm talking about inequality within the developed nations—specifically, the US (I believe it also affects the UK; I don't feel qualified to talk about such effects beyond that, due to lack of information). As for what's happening with our politics...if you can't see that the current situation is wildly different than it was 40, 20, or even 10 years ago, then I'm sorry, but you have not been pa…

People always like to complain that times are getting worse.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#503

Post by jjeaff »

RestlessMind wrote: post #469
bojangleslover wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) and (2) are separate. The IRS/state department of revenue won't care, and they won't tell your employer. Say you live in HCOL, actually live in LCOL, and at the year claim a refund from HCOL and file properly with LCOL. You can just say plans changed and you moved in the case of an audit. You could tell your employer the same thing. Much harder to dock someone's salary once they've started working.

> The IRS/state department of revenue won't care, and they won't tell your employer California FTB very much cares if you are collecting SV salary but are not paying CA taxes by living in LCOL areas. Unless you are a CPA, please do not spread lies.

The state of California can only tax you for the time you lived in California. Now, they may well throw a fit and try to claim you don't live out of state and use your employer information to substantiate it. But legally, they would not be able to keep you from getting a refund and paying elsewhere.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#504

Post by jjeaff »

chii wrote: post #248
CalRobert wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it matters but I have a limited company and am an employee of said company, which means I deal with taxes on my own and can perform work for (almost) any company in the world - I just invoice them like any supplier. Maybe this is the future? Though some companies would rather you were their employee I suppose.

> I have a limited company and am an employee of said company, which means I deal with taxes on my own and can perform work for (almost) any company in the world which means you're a contractor, rather than an employee. I do think this is a better way tbh, as you can potentially own all of your healthcare costs, and optimize your taxes properly. And you can probably charge a lot more as a contractor, to make up for t…

It might be a better idea for high income people. But it is often used to take advantage of regular employees.

It is a poor reflection of our tax system that running your own entity that you then pay yourself out of can have lower taxes than simply earning money as an employee.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#505

Post by jjeaff »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #301
ejb999 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think an awful lot of employers would prefer you were a contractor; in the USA at least, it is the IRS/government that prevents this from happening more by putting the fear into said employers that they will be fined and forced to pay back taxes for anyone improperly classifying people as contractors when they are in fact employees.

Are contractors taxed less than companies in the US? In France, companies also like to contract out a lot, either to "freelance" or regular outsourcing shops. The reason I put freelance in quotes is that there's no such thing here, legally. You have to have some form of company, through which you invoice the client. But then, whenever you want to get the money out of the company to pay rent and eat, you'll be hit by,…

Contractors are taxed at a higher rate, or really, the same rate, but in an employee situation, the employer must pay half of the tax.

However, depending on what you do, people can end up paying less in taxes overall as a contractor because you have more flexibility for deductions. There are very little options for an employee to deduct any expenses in the US, whereas, a contractor could potentially deduct the cost to commute to an office, their cellphone and home internet (if used for work) and even a portion of their rent/mortgage for a home office.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#506

Post by lampshades »

aembleton wrote: post #386
lampshades wrote: post #314

I wish I had an office to go to. I never leave my house anymore and it is becoming very very old. Before everyone says, “oh, go get some hobbies and live your life, work isn’t here for your social life,” understand that I have young children and no free time. I am nearing middle age in a city I moved to for work. I don’t have the base level of social interaction most people inherit by birth or school and no time to b…

> I miss asking my coworkers how their weekends went. What stops you from doing that when working remotely? You don't just have to chat about work.

Like enum said, I want the face-to-face interaction. Not to say I haven’t tried to make small talk, I have. Talking about non-work things with natively remote co-workers is awkward. It’s clear that they don’t want to do it and I don’t want to force myself on them.

I’ve heard the argument, “well think about how they feel when you’re in the office and they can’t get away from your asking about their weekend,” but I’ve never worked in an office and not created genuine friendships that persisted outside of work.

I’m sure full remote work is fine for a lot of people and if I weren’t married and raising people, I’d probably be one of them.

Still, remote is preferable to full in-office. A couple of days of the week, maybe less, feels like the right amount of time in the office. Companies could downsize and schedule certain teams for certain days.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#507

Post by zajio1am »

interactivecode wrote: post #178
sokoloff wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! Everyone is free to select among their options the one that they most prefer.

though you have to admit in basically all situations the employer has more leverage than a single employee.

I do not think so. Transaction costs for employee are small - several months of lost pay (before finding new employer), which would be mostly covered by severance pay or unemployment insurance anyway. Transaction costs for employer depends, they generally pay for lost productivity during training-in period and lost institutional knowledge in case of high-knowledge workers.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#508

Post by paulcole »

scotty79 wrote: post #483
sokoloff wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I'm in NH and scotty80 and scotty81 agree to work for me for $12/hr and I am structurally precluded from finding out where they live or work, what happens if it turns out that scotty80 is in NH (above minimum wage) and scotty81 is in MA (below minimum wage)? Is it legal?

My idea is that you report to the government that you want to hire me. And I contact the government with the information where I live. You suggest how much you are willing to pay me to the government. And I get information how much I'll be earning after taxes and required social security fees. If I don't agree or the amount you proposed is illegally low then I can't work for you until you decide to bump up the salary…

I’m with you here. When I want a process to be completed in less than an afternoon, I often add several interactions with a governmental agency to the mix in order to speed things along.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#509

Post by paulcole »

mejutoco wrote: post #393
paulcole wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Because in your made-up equal productivity scenario we can just as easily make up the idea that people are less happy working remotely. The reality is that some people like remote work and some don’t. Some organizations have chosen to be remote and some haven’t. Nobody’s right or wrong. They can make the choice that they believe is best for them — sometimes that choice requires trading off things they like for th…

This conversation was in the context of OP > I wish people would stop posting articles that imply that remote working is somehow objectively better > we can just as easily make up the idea that people are less happy working remotely. We can make up the idea that the sun is blue, but I think you missed my point. Please note I talk about productivity. In the context of people claiming remote/in-person work is more prod…

> I find it an elegant way to diffuse this proof-of-burden.

I can see why.

OK, let’s assume you’re right and they’re equally productive.

But who actually cares about productivity? Many individuals and individuals who speak for organizations say they do but their actions don’t match that.

And OK, let’s say people actually care about productivity. Remote work isn’t automatically better because you guessed that the pollution savings are large. Now, you can just kind of handwave that away and say of course it’s large.

But aren’t there other changes that result from remote work? How do you rank those vs. pollution and commuting time?

It will be quite easy for you to win this argument when you assert that all your assumptions are correct.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#510

Post by PM_me_your_math »

JohnFen wrote: post #423
HDThoreaun wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be about the value I bring to the company Your salary has never been even related to the value you bring the company. That is just the absolute maximum they're willing to pay. Your salary is the lowest your company thinks they can pay to get a suitable employee. They pay remote workers less because there are remote workers willing to work for less, simple as that.

This. Proof of it is in the pay rates of CEOs.

How do you figure? The CEO and a process employee of the company have two entirely different roles.
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