Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why is remote work seen as a gift?

cdoyle.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 564 posts

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#261

Post by JonChesterfield »

iwangulenko wrote: post #177

"Looking at benefits like that, it boggles my mind that companies are pushing back on remote work" it boggles the author's mind because - likely - this person hasn't *ever* run a company or paid people with their own hard-earned money. Everyone works better when in a physical room doing the same thing. True in the gym, in the library, at work, anywhere.

Not even remotely true. As covered above and in all the other threads on this.

Some people work better when co-located with others. Some people work better in isolation. Some people do best with a mixture.

A private gym and/or a private library will evoke the same split.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#262

Post by bathtub365 »

davidmurdoch wrote: post #244
ericmay wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really surprised that nobody has set up address as a service yet so that you can claim for example to live in New York by virtue of an address auto command “a New York salary”.

I know someone that lived in Mexico but listed a friend's address in NYC on all work paperwork.

How did that go come tax time?

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#263

Post by John23832 »

ericmay wrote: post #220
franciscop wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true, the best you can do is vote with your feet. I have had the situation where I was offered "locally competitive salaries" (not in the USA though), and every time I've rejected it I had a 50%-100% better offer within few weeks . There ARE companies that will pay better and independently of your location, you do need to be good though (as in companies are proactively seeking you out) and keep searching.…

I’m really surprised that nobody has set up address as a service yet so that you can claim for example to live in New York by virtue of an address auto command “a New York salary”.

Sounds like a good way to complicate your taxes. Especially if you’re claiming to live in California or New York.

You know the old saying, noting is certain except death, and the will of the department of taxation for the state of (California|New York).

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#264

Post by jt2190 »

MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

> … some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area.

Keep in mind that not all companies are competing for talent globally. [1]

The real question is whether companies that compete in a local or regional market will be able to continue to pay local rates to anyone with specialized skills who can also go remote, or if they’ll just give up and find some other solution.

[1] https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#265

Post by [deleted] »

mejutoco wrote: post #200
lbriner wrote: post #163

I wish people would stop posting articles that imply that remote working is somehow objectively better when it has already been made more than clear that it doesn't work well for everyone. I really miss the contact from the office but since most people don't go in any more, it is not worth much of my time to travel there. Yes, we employ some people fully remotely, which is fine because that's what we knew at the time…

Let‘s say productivity is the same remotely and in person. Would that not make remote automatically better because of all the pollution and time lost commuting?

[deleted]

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#266

Post by Jcampuzano2 »

cj wrote: post #237
lunarhustler wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the market ain't going to bear it, not for a long time anyway. If I am a CEO of a remote-first company and it truly doesn't matter for me where the employees are located it makes no sense to overpay for labor in high cost of living area. So if there's a company A that pays $X in high COL area, and $X/3 in a low COL area. And then there's a company B that pays $X/2 everywhere. Then people from the low COL area…

I run a remote-first company, and this is basically how we do it. We don't give people different offers based on where they say they live. Rather, we have a salary range for a job, and we look for people who are attracted by that salary range. This usually means people in SF, NYC, and other high COL cities disqualify themselves, so we end up hiring many people outside of tech hubs. In other words, if you simply stop…

One thing I don't like that is a bit specific to my own situation about most companies that aren't really remote first, but switched to it due to circumstance is that to them remote means - "you will literally always be located at XYZ address and do all your work from there".

I have my home address, but I actually only spend maybe 4-6 months of the year physically located there. This kind of pisses off most employers due to the tax situation as well as them treating it as if I'm gaming the system by being physically located for much of the year in lower cost of living areas (though sometimes I've even gone to higher cost of living areas for months at a tiem).

A situation like this where the salary doesn't really depend on location so it wouldn't be treated like I'm actively trying to game anything would actually be preferred in my situation, and to many others I know as well.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#267

Post by paulcole »

scotty79 wrote: post #143
MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

Maybe "Where do you live?" should be one of those questions employers shouldn't be allowed to ask? Like what's your religion or what's your sexual orientation?

This just wouldn’t work in the US. The regulations vary greatly from state to state and even city to city. Choosing to employ a person in a state for the first time can be a very costly decision (in both time and $$$) for a small business. The second, third, fourth, etc. employees are marginally less expensive but “breaking the seal” and hiring that first employee in a new state isn’t something that every business takes lightly.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#268

Post by tiffanyh »

MrGilbert wrote: post #25

I find it kind of amusing (and annoying) that employers like to play the salaray game as it fits their needs. I got interviewed a few times, and some stated that they cannot pay the salary I was asking, because i don't live in a high-density, high-cost-for-living area, while others argued that they have to respect their local salaries, which are below what I would expect in my area. I'm yet to meet the employer that…

Cost of Labor vs Cost of Living.

Sounds like your interview at companies who employ the former, not later.

https://www.zenefits.com/workest/cost-of-living-vs-cost-of-l...

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#269

Post by m463 »

nlnn wrote: post #109

I've worked either both fully remote and fully in the office over the past decade depending on job at the time, and noticed little difference in work productivity at home vs. the office. The major difference has been in the dead time around work. Time spent commuting, lunch breaks, coffee breaks, etc. When working in an office, nothing much is achieved during those (maybe some socialising or reading), and work takes…

I find the dead time is shared and my employer frequently benefits.

For example, I sometimes lay off work but remain in my home office, and lightly task switch between personal stuff and work stuff.

By this I mean I answer some messages, mind some not-very-engaged, long-running tasks, or scratch some itch not on the schedule. Sometimes I reinstall a system.

Without the physical toll of going to the office in person, there are frequent opportunities to catch up, or get ahead at work.

On the other hand, if I go into the office, I do it the other way, doing shopping or running errands before or after work as I usually pass by locations that I wouldn't make a trip for if I was totally home.

Re: Why is remote work seen as a gift?

#270

Post by paulcole »

mejutoco wrote: post #200
lbriner wrote: post #163

I wish people would stop posting articles that imply that remote working is somehow objectively better when it has already been made more than clear that it doesn't work well for everyone. I really miss the contact from the office but since most people don't go in any more, it is not worth much of my time to travel there. Yes, we employ some people fully remotely, which is fine because that's what we knew at the time…

Let‘s say productivity is the same remotely and in person. Would that not make remote automatically better because of all the pollution and time lost commuting?

No. Because in your made-up equal productivity scenario we can just as easily make up the idea that people are less happy working remotely.

The reality is that some people like remote work and some don’t. Some organizations have chosen to be remote and some haven’t. Nobody’s right or wrong. They can make the choice that they believe is best for them — sometimes that choice requires trading off things they like for things they don’t. For example, I work for a remote company and I really dislike remote work. But I really like the company I work at, so I choose to work there.

Post reply on HN