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Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

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Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#51

Post by dgb23 »

ska wrote: post #37
braingenious wrote: post #8

I’d rather learn a trade like plumbing or electrical systems. Hell, the richest guy I’ve ever met ran a high-end masonry business.

I suspect you mean "owned" by ran. Trades are a decent entry into owning a small business with higher barrier to entry than say a restaurant but still pretty straightforward and can be made revenue stable with a small team (sometimes no permanent team, e.g. some builders). Especially if you grind when you and the business are young, you can end up in a good place fairly predictably. But mostly people are financially…

In many places if you run a (small) business _well_ that does craft stuff like plumbing, electricity and similar, you're going to have people lining up for your services to no end.

I don't know why that is. But I assume that the combination of excellent trade/craftsmanship and organizational skills is very attractive.

I always hear the same story from my friends who have been working in small service businesses, whether they are gardeners, carpenters, electricians or cleaners etc:

When it's bad (fairly typical) it's the boss being stretched too thin between too many responsibilities, or its a person that has no clue about the actual trade. They are the both the bottleneck for solutions and the cause of compounding issues.

It ends up in overworked, stressed workers, missed deadlines and mistakes that snowball into more such problems.

A trade/service business that is run well, treats their workers well (which is their major asset) and does good work can charge more and will never run out of work. It seems there is no simple formula for this so you end up with a lot of what you describe above.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#52

Post by floor2 »

This is a deeply flawed premise. Tech sector grew headcount by like 100% over a couple years, and then did layoffs of 5-10%. They still have massively more employees today than they did pre-covid.

People are significantly overreacting to the current layoffs and ignoring all the massive hiring spree of the last 3 years. If you hire 100 people and then layoff 8, the narrative shouldn't be that the end is nigh.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#53

Post by ElfinTrousers »

dieselgate wrote: post #12

What exactly are the equivalencies between coding and driving a truck - is it supposed to relate an industry potentially ripe for automation or just an "expected" service many people rely on? I find this all hilarious because just like 5 years ago so many were quoting Bill Gates saying "programming knowledge will be the literacy of the 21st century" and it depends. If people are all so genuinely interested in tech an…

Not so much that the jobs are inherently similar. It's more that, during the last recession roughly 15 years ago, and IIRC actually the past several recessions, there were a lot of ads for truck-driving schools in the media. The idea is that trucking is supposed to be a recession-proof trade, and whether that idea is true or not, it's good for trucking schools if people believe that. The parallels to coding, bootcamps, etc. are clear.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#54

Post by ElfinTrousers »

toast0 wrote: post #42
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

If you're a coder you get to sleep in your own bed.

If you've got a fancy rig, your bed comes with you.

I can't say I've ever wanted to work as a trucker, but I have wanted to give a sleeper cab a try at least once in my life, just to see what it's like.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#55

Post by jacquesm »

Loughla wrote: post #28
shadowgovt wrote: post #18

Trades are a great idea. ... I don't think I'd specifically recommend "Learn to drive a big rig" though. In addition to the industry itself being a real bad deal for vehicle operators ( https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/business/truck-driver-sho... ), it's the segment of the transportation sector centered in the crosshairs of disruption-through-automation. The self-driving vehicle companies that laid off were, broad…

Trades are an okay idea. People have this rosy picture of a skilled trades job, with high pay, great benefits, and security from a strong union. And while that can be true, it is certainly only a very small part of the picture. You can't just say, I'm going to be a plumber, and bam, you're a plumber. You could, conceivably do that with something like rough frame carpentry, but those aren't the high paid trades people…

Ask a plumber to show you their crawlsuit and describe the last month or so of their work and you being to appreciate their rates.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#56

Post by dieselgate »

ElfinTrousers wrote: post #53
dieselgate wrote: post #12

What exactly are the equivalencies between coding and driving a truck - is it supposed to relate an industry potentially ripe for automation or just an "expected" service many people rely on? I find this all hilarious because just like 5 years ago so many were quoting Bill Gates saying "programming knowledge will be the literacy of the 21st century" and it depends. If people are all so genuinely interested in tech an…

Not so much that the jobs are inherently similar. It's more that, during the last recession roughly 15 years ago, and IIRC actually the past several recessions, there were a lot of ads for truck-driving schools in the media. The idea is that trucking is supposed to be a recession-proof trade, and whether that idea is true or not, it's good for trucking schools if people believe that. The parallels to coding, bootcamp…

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying - it's about the Utility of the lines of work.

I personally feel better about thinking of these lines of works as "very important to maintaining the status quo" rather than "recession-proof" but it's basically the same thing

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#57

Post by DwnVoteHoneyPot »

jacquesm wrote: post #55
Loughla wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trades are an okay idea. People have this rosy picture of a skilled trades job, with high pay, great benefits, and security from a strong union. And while that can be true, it is certainly only a very small part of the picture. You can't just say, I'm going to be a plumber, and bam, you're a plumber. You could, conceivably do that with something like rough frame carpentry, but those aren't the high paid trades people…

Ask a plumber to show you their crawlsuit and describe the last month or so of their work and you being to appreciate their rates.

I talked to 3 plumbers recently when I bought a partially built house. First guy was a "commercial" plumber working on new builds only. Second guy was a "home renovation" plumber. Both these 2 plumbers won't go near a clogged toilet. Third guy specialized on clogged pipes and home emergency repair.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#58

Post by giantg2 »

dgb23 wrote: post #51
ska wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you mean "owned" by ran. Trades are a decent entry into owning a small business with higher barrier to entry than say a restaurant but still pretty straightforward and can be made revenue stable with a small team (sometimes no permanent team, e.g. some builders). Especially if you grind when you and the business are young, you can end up in a good place fairly predictably. But mostly people are financially…

In many places if you run a (small) business _well_ that does craft stuff like plumbing, electricity and similar, you're going to have people lining up for your services to no end. I don't know why that is. But I assume that the combination of excellent trade/craftsmanship and organizational skills is very attractive. I always hear the same story from my friends who have been working in small service businesses, whet…

"I don't know why that is. But I assume that the combination of excellent trade/craftsmanship and organizational skills is very attractive."

This. I'd say at least 25% lack one or the other. So many end up so over budget, very behind schedule, and do substandard or sloppy work.

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#59

Post by [deleted] »

dieselgate wrote: post #10
sublinear wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a very long tail of businesses that are not "big tech", but still have significant IT departments and pay well for "boring" work.

That's my impression as well. I don't understand the perspective of "is software engineering over because I can't make a quarter million base salary anymore?". I've always preferred smaller companies and never wanted to work at a large tech company - don't foresee much change in my future unless I willingly change industries for personal reasons

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is “learn to code” now “learn to drive a big rig”?

#60

Post by DwnVoteHoneyPot »

pwinnski wrote: post #50
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend who is basically an extremely "toxic capitalist" (to put it simply). He "called" that it wouldn't last that a lot of people were making "big" tech money + not really working 8 hours a day. Maybe that's what this whole "big tech layoff" is. A reset to lower overheated wages. Make 500,000 unemployed programmers compete for paycuts.

Your friend has bought into the hype, as a lot of people have. There are very few people making "big tech money" who are not also putting in very long hours. They exist, but are often/usually in the (long) process of being "managed out." There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of this is a power-play by profitable companies to push back against developers who've collectively gained more power at the negotiating table.…

Dividends/buy-backs and layoffs are derived from the same concept. The company has excess resources they do not plan to use in the future. If you have excess cash, return it to the shareholder. If you have excess employees, reduce head count. It means the company doesn't want to build anything at the moment (for various reasons include prep for a downturn).
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