Elixir/Phoenix is wonderful. Worth a look.
Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
31–40 of 53 posts
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#32Rails still holds the top spot in getting things out the door in the shortest amount of time. So many example projects and tons of amazing libraries that are available. They absolutely have the best developer docs in the industry as far as I'm concerned.
https://guides.rubyonrails.org/
Phoenix/Liveview is a close second. I would personally use Phoenix/Liveview at this point because I know that stack pretty well, but it is definitely not as easy as Rails to learn. However, once past the learning phase I think there's distinct advantages especially with Liveview.
Fly.io has a free hosting tier currently. You can also get some free servers through Oracle Cloud.
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#33It’s 2023 and I still think nothing beats Rails (even with all its flaws).
It’s def a solid option esp. if you’re very familiar with it already. But, I think Elixir/Phoenix beats it handily at this point for someone starting from scratch with either one or that is willing to spend a week or two learning something new.
Elixir and Phoenix is wonderful, but it is not comparable to rails when it comes to pure productivity — Rails is much better. And if you include hotwire into the mix, it is not anywhere a close comparison. Liveview is not comparable due to tech difference (websocket and low lantency requirement), as well as an additional complexity on top of phoenix (you add liveview and your productivity will be affected).
Don’t get me wrong, I would still pick Phoenix a lot of the time over rails, but that is despite the lower productivity. Sometimes even Phoenix + hotwire is not a bad idea.
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#34This: https://create.t3.gg/ having typesafety out of the box between backend and frontend is a game changer.. not having to do fetches manually and your api autocompleting is awesome.
This looks pretty weird. Instead of using this, I find it more appropriate to prepare something more basic to meet your own needs.
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#35Django. Never as productive with anything else plus I like coding in Python. Anything I need that's not out of the box I usually can find as a 3rd party app.
I use templates + htmx + a little js here and there as needed
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#36It’s 2023 and I still think nothing beats Rails (even with all its flaws).
What are the flaws?
I’d say the biggest drawback is performance. Ruby is slow and resource hungry, Rails leans heavily on reflection. Starting a large Rails app can take 10+ seconds (even with bootsnap). Large test suites can become time consuming to run. Heavy use of partials can noticeably impact rendering time.
However, this is not an issue until you have a large app. It’s a small downside compared to the upside. It’s also less of an issue today as servers have become cheaper and more powerful. As DHH said, “…sure, I'd like free CPU cycles too. I just happen to care much more about free developer cycles and am willing to trade the former for the latter."
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#37ASP.NET 7 with c# as a programming language. The tooling is mature, it's not going to rot. I've realize a lot of framework are great in theory but getting started and staying afloat is hard. This framework is typesafe, you can use: React, Angular, MVC, Blazor, Pages. Everything you need. In second position, i would pick any top 10 php framework: Laravel, Symfony, Yii. Why, because they are simple to work with and to…
Is there an equivalent for deployer in .NET world?
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are the flaws?
I’d say the biggest drawback is performance. Ruby is slow and resource hungry, Rails leans heavily on reflection. Starting a large Rails app can take 10+ seconds (even with bootsnap). Large test suites can become time consuming to run. Heavy use of partials can noticeably impact rendering time. However, this is not an issue until you have a large app. It’s a small downside compared to the upside. It’s also less of an…
Thanks for the reply. I guess it's not as big of an issue if it can save development time.
> Rails leans heavily on reflection. Starting a large Rails app can take 10+ seconds
This is nothing compared to the spring boot project at my job, takes like a whole minute to start haha
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#39Laravel! https://laravel.com/docs/9.x#laravel-the-fullstack-framework
Came to post about laravel too. Really quick prototyping. Especially if you know the framework already since it has its own way of doing things.
With things like filamentphp and laravel spark most of the work is already done for you.
Re: Ask HN: Easiest and cheapest full-stack frameworks that you love?
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
This! Use one of the many admin panels that directly build on your data structure. Administrate, RailsAdmin, ... As well as devise for Auth, Postgres as scalable cheap DB, and so on. I am not sure if any other framework can make a single person or small team this productive (when it comes to CRUD like operations)
Eh, I've tried rails many times just to ask myself what makes this better than laravel? I mean laravel new app --jet (jetstream/saas features) gets me: - authentication/authorization - Including: oauth, tokens, 2fa, etc. - queues w/ choice of redis, memcache, db, etc. - cache w/ choice of redis, memcache, db, etc. - SaaS dashboard w/ teams using something like phoenix's liveview called livewire OR vue + inertia - If…
I started making stuff in rails around 2013, got a job at a PHP firm around 2018 where I've worked with a lot of Laravel. At this point i know Laravel better than rails, I would say.
Most of the things you mentioned is either present in rails by default, such as queues and cache. Yes, you have to install external dependencies such as device for authentication etc, but that takes mere seconds to set up. Like, two or three CLI commands and you're done. Rails has "liveview" too in the form of Stimulus.
Never heard of filament tho, looks kinda neat. I know there are some similar gems for rails, but I have little experience with these kinds of products.
I still pick rails for my private development projects. Laravel and Rails both have their upsides, but none of them are really a game changer enough that I'dd consider dropping rails in favor of Laravel. Some of the things I like with rails in particular are things like
* Interactive repl on exception screens in the browser. I can interrogate the state of my request when the error occurred.
* "Intellisense" in the rails console(and also interactive repl) is kinda nice.
* I find it easier to configure and setup rails in docker than php.
* I like that in rails validations are defined on the model and not on the request.
* I like the built in form_for, form builder in rails, i like that its also very extendable. Which makes it easy to make reusable components with little to no code.
* My IntelliJ is often much better at understanding and parsing my rails projects than my rails projects.
* Lots of small rails things such as route functions instead of the route helper.
* It feels to me like rails has less boilerplate and is better at generating scaffolds, but that might be because of the laravel code I have been working on.