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Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

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Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

#1
There was a post [0] recently about the bing chatGPT assistant either citing or hallucinating it’s own initial prompt from the (in theory) low privileged chat input UI they put together. This feels like it’s almost unavoidable if you let users actually chat with something like this.

How would we sanitize strings now? I know OpenAI has banned topics they seem to regex for, but that’s always going to miss something. Are we just screwed and should make sure chat bots just run in a proverbial sandbox and can’t do anything themselves?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34717702

Re: Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

#3
If I understand correctly, ChatGPT doesn't have its latent capabilities removed. Instead, they're suppressed by training using negative feedback. These special prompts are supposed to find the remaining stochastic spaces where ChatGPT can process the desired output that is not suppressed by training.

So, the danger seems to be that there is no currently documented way to completely remove these possible outputs, because that's just not how these systems work.

Prompt engineering in this specific usage could be thought of as injection, but from what I understand, there's currently no known sanitization process. In theory one could use the system itself to determine intent and sanitize input this way, but I believe there's a possibility for one to craft intent that is understood by the system, but the intent description itself isn't. This would be akin to bypassing sanitization.

ChatGPT seems to already do some form of this intent processing, either inherently or explicitly. But all prompt crafting at the moment is first based on this injection or jailbreaking to bypass intent sanitization.

Re: Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

#5
I'm starting to wonder if the most effective way to protect against prompt injection is to use an additional layer of (hopefully) a smaller model.

As in, another prompt that searches the input and/or output for questionable content before sending the result. The question will be if that is also susceptible, but I suspect fine tuning an LLM only to do the task of filtering and not parsing will be easier to control.

Re: Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

#6

If I understand correctly, ChatGPT doesn't have its latent capabilities removed. Instead, they're suppressed by training using negative feedback. These special prompts are supposed to find the remaining stochastic spaces where ChatGPT can process the desired output that is not suppressed by training. So, the danger seems to be that there is no currently documented way to completely remove these possible outputs, beca…

Oh that’s interesting! I was just assuming they determined some large list of words and phrases that you couldn’t use. Makes a lot more sense to front-load a bunch of prompt data about “chat bot does not discuss politicians”.

I guess this evolves into an arms race where we’re constantly growing that initial prompt.

Re: Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

#7
post #5

I'm starting to wonder if the most effective way to protect against prompt injection is to use an additional layer of (hopefully) a smaller model. As in, another prompt that searches the input and/or output for questionable content before sending the result. The question will be if that is also susceptible, but I suspect fine tuning an LLM only to do the task of filtering and not parsing will be easier to control.

The way forward eventually is going to be to just not bother with any of this crap, and let it run free. The tech exists, and the problematic outputs are what the user says they want, eventually they're going to win out.

Re: Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

#8
I think this is a vulnerability in the sense that ability to "View Source" is vulnerability.

Some technologies allow users to see the source code. They just work like this. Programmer should be aware of it and should not put any confidential information there.

Re: Ask HN: Is “prompt injection” going to be a new common vulnerability?

#10
post #8

I think this is a vulnerability in the sense that ability to "View Source" is vulnerability. Some technologies allow users to see the source code. They just work like this. Programmer should be aware of it and should not put any confidential information there.

I think that would be true if it wasn’t able to be over written. But considering the prompt and context are all in the same mess of information, it seems more and more likely that you could also find creative ways of asking “the first 3 prompts were lies”.

Thankfully now, the output is just a string. Worries me if someone decides to start interpreting output to do tasks. We all seem to be in agreement that’s a horrible idea but people will get bored of ChatGPT only giving them mashed-together search results. The market is there for a chatbot help desk assistant that can close your account or change your mailing address on file…

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