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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#781

Post by jprd »

A single sourced "news story" by anyone, is a non-starter. It isn't a news story, it is hearsay. First hand testimony with fanfic levels of correlating data have caused untold misery throughout History, of late being a particular sorry swing of that pendulum.

When someone like Hersh is behind it, I expect _WAY_ more. His single source could be President Biden on the record and I'd still take issue with this.

All of this could turn out to be nearly 100% correct and it would still be irresponsible. The implications of getting this even slightly wrong are potentially catastrophic, in so many unpredictable ways.

Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I grew up learning not to F around with the implications of a land war in Europe.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#782

Post by jessaustin »

pasquinelli wrote: post #683
beebmam wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seymour Hersh regarding the Osama bin Laden raid, in which the terrorist leader was killed in 2011: "Nothing's been done about that story, it's one big lie, not one word of it is true". Later on in 2013, he changed his claim, such that he admitted some of the story is true, that is, that the terrorist leader was killed, after he encountered pushback. Source: https://dailycaller.com/2013/09/27/hersh-slams-us-media-cla…

now you mention it, it is odd they never produced a body.

Someone was killed, but he may not have been ObL. This seems far-fetched, until one realizes that the entire war against Afghanistan was justified on the idea of capturing ObL, who is documented to have left Afghanistan less than a month into the war, which lasted another twenty years. Nothing makes sense, about any of this.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#783

Post by TMWNN »

mzs wrote: post #648
edenceover wrote: post #374

> Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg, a committed anti-communist, who served as Norway’s prime minister for eight years before moving to his high NATO post, with American backing, in 2014. He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the America…

Thanks, Vietnam was over in '75, Stoltenberg was 16 then. It's just all so absurd.

>Thanks, Vietnam was over in '75, Stoltenberg was 16 then. It's just all so absurd.

Not necessarily.

I had thought Hersh's "since the Vietnam War" line to be poorly phrased, or an editing mistake, but /u/michaelmacmanus makes an interesting point https://np.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/10wx42b/seymour_h...>. Maybe we should take the line literally!

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#785

Post by chii »

partiallypro wrote: post #557
throwayyy479087 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s the Polish. Apparently their relationship with Russia is similar to a very angry pitbull has with steak. They were mass rapes by the Soviets at the end of World War II and horrible conditions for the Polish during the Soviet empire. Polish friends say there’s no shortage of young men who want the glory of blowing up something owned by the people who gang raped Grandma.

I can totally see it being the Polish, but I don't think there is a clear finger that points to anyone (including the US and Russia.) This does sound more plausible than the US. If the US did it, it would literally be done with support of other NATO allies (including Germany itself, and in secret.) It's simply too risky for them to end up destroying the entire NATO relationship, which they would not risk at this junc…

> It's simply too risky for them to end up destroying the entire NATO relationship

and also the pipelines area already denied being approved by germany at the time.

The risk of blowing it up to make it irreversible seems to lack any real gains vs the risk it entails.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#786

Post by chii »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #545
xg15 wrote: post #535

I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it even though that made zero sense - but absolutely refused to even consider the possibility that the US or another western state could have done it. But at this point, the article is basically "cool story, bro". The only independently verifyable bits are the public statements of Biden, Nuland, e…

> I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it even though that made zero sense - but absolutely refused to even consider the possibility that the US or another western state could have done it. One simple hypothesis would be that it is only an illusion that western media outlets are independent from their governments.

There's been many instances of western media outlets being hugely critical of the US gov't.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#787

Post by chii »

che_shirecat wrote: post #776
mlindner wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of "alternatives" that are not censored. There's media all over the middle east and asia that's not friendly to the US that isn't censored. It makes perfect sense to censor the aggressor in a war because of course they're only going to say things that benefit themselves, especially in a country that's passed laws against the criticism of the war. All you're really arguing for here is that the west sh…

what makes Russian propaganda different from US propaganda?

russian propaganda benefits russia, at the cost of the US.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#788

Post by chii »

SergeAx wrote: post #767
tikwidd wrote: post #577

My thoughts on the incident, organised as a series of nested propositions. 0. The Nord Stream pipeline incident was not an accident. 1. The pipeline was sabotaged by a state actor. a. Only a state had the capability to carry it out undetected. b. The sabotage was in violation of international law. c. Evidence of the sabotage would cause a diplomatic scandal. d? Either Russia or the United States sabotaged the pipelin…

> Russia had no motivation to destroy it Russia wanted to cause panic and meltdown on EUs energy markets, but to no avail. Russia tried to sabotage gas supply by fiddling with turbines for months, but was in the end out of options, and EU gas prices were still too far from panic and collapse. Blowing up underwater gas pipes the same day that a gas pipe from Norway started to work - too good to be coincidence. > Russi…

> enormous penalties in case of breaching contract.

penalties they could simply just ignore if they choose to. After all, they forced the sale in rubles, despite this not being part of the initial agreement of gas sales.

blowing it up seems just too much of shooting-self-in-the-foot for russia, unless russia can confidently lay the blame onto the west (particularly, the US) as the culprit.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#789

Post by kornhole »

officehero wrote: post #473
Laaas wrote: post #328

It is bewildering how many here are against this post staying up; no matter whether it's true or not, it's an interesting article! If you feel it is not true, why take it down rather than simply state your opinion in the comments? Do we not have the freedom to discuss and form our own opinions about it?

As a former resident in Russia I'm shocked at how all state controlled media from Russia has been completely censored in the west. I understand why it's done (bcs it breeds conspiracies etc) but it's not for free because now people don't get any 'alternative' view on the matter. Censorship is a tricky thing

Yes the state aligned MSM platforms censor or manipulate the news to their aims. Those platforms are all that some people know. Some places where people in the west can find news alternative to the MSM narrative are: Odysee, Rumble, Bitchute, antiwar.com, thegrayzone, fair.org, commondreams, truthout.org, consortiumnews. Please comment with more here to spread the word.
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