It’s interesting how pro-russian propaganda has massively spiked in the recent days. They are bringing pretty much every talking head with half a name to it they can get. Putin and his cronies must really feel the pressure. I have to say it kind of makes me happy. Means that Ukraine and Allies are doing things right.
“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
661–670 of 1001 posts
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#662Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kremlin sanctioned themselves? Or are you presenting the suspension of gas supplies to Europe by Russia as a sort of “retaliatory sanctions”? That’s fine of course, it’s like North Korea cutting off themselves from the world and starving as a way to punish the world for interfering in its internal matters as they relate to nuclear weapons.
They're saying the US did it, in coordination with their "other" sanctions, in agreement with the article and opposition to the commenter. I don't think this was a hard puzzle.
Wasn’t clear to me, but if so - I have already more than covered my thoughts on the subject. Glad that’s settled.
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#663Earlier quoted context omitted.
I question this theory. Russia had already throttled NS 1 and was playing games with the turbine certification. I'm not so sure that they would have had to pay damages. It is true that they were pressuring Germany to certify NS 2 (one explanation is that NS 1 had long term contracts whereas NS 2 would have been higher spot prices). But the danger of NS 2 certification would also support the U.S. involvement theory. T…
> Another such investigation was the sinking of the MS Estonia Stop believing conspiracy theories. The investigation into the sinking was well executed and most likely correct. Estonia was also never covered, they started the work and then aborted it.
Stop accusing people of believing conspiracy theories (though it apparently gains upvotes here). It is the Swedish government who re-investigates:
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#664Earlier quoted context omitted.
Try reading it instead of skimming
I read the first half and looked over the second half. Do you think I missed something that would change the moderation call here? If so, what?
factual errors: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34714741
But also just look at what happened here in the comments. It's totally predictable. Those of us that read the article and flagged the post had prevented this. In this case flagging had worked and was not abused.
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#665Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What I find particularly odd is that this entire thing appears to be based on a single, unnamed source "with direct knowledge of the operational planning". Why is that weird? Assuming this is true, there would be rather many people with such knowledge. One of them may feel the need to talk. Would you expect such a source to be named? Also, I find it a lot easier to imagine why the US would want to do this, than why…
> Why is that weird? Assuming this is true, there would be rather many people with such knowledge. One of them may feel the need to talk. The level of detail about the operation is basically, some divers from the US Navy attached bombs to the pipeline during a military drill that were detonated with magical sonobouy signals according to some professor who said that might work. Another red flag: The vast majority of t…
> and not who is benefited by the destruction of the pipeline.
Something that wasn't made clear in the article is that US energy companies have been massive beneficiaries of the Nordstream destruction. The US is now the world's leading exporter of liquid natural gas. That wouldn't have happened if the pipeline(s) were still operational.
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#666Earlier quoted context omitted.
The "Putin did it" hypothesis was that he did it to prevent internal replacement. Suppose that some Russian rival wanted to replace him. They could kill or imprison Putin, end the war in Ukraine, restart the gas pipelines, and have a lot of gas money from Europe to distribute to supporters. Destroying the pipelines removed the potential reward for an internal rival to replace him.
> Suppose that some Russian rival Putin's rivals make Putin look soft. If they do take power, they will end the conflict quickly and definitively.
There is no mechanism by which the war can be ended quickly and definitively without global murder-suicide. (Aside from Russia leaving, of course.)
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#667It's a great story, but it's all unsourced and could be a decent Tom Clancy story at best. You could probably write a similar one with Russia or German agents as the key players and be just as convincing. The only anchor in reality appears to be Biden suggesting that they knew how to take it out which seems like a pretty weak place to build a large story. What I find particularly odd is that this entire thing appears…
"You could probably write a similar one with Russia ..." I disagree - there is no credible motive here for Russia and, in fact, the outcome was directly opposed to every outcome they are, or were trying, to achieve. Not only do I, as a US citizen, believe that the US perpetrated this act but further: I believe it is an overtly hostile action against EU citizens and, particularly, Germans, who will suffer the most eco…
Notice how the Nord Stream explosions were timed with the opening of the Baltic Pipe connection, which makes it possible to send Norwegian (and Danish) gas from the North Sea to Poland (and possibly further to Lithuania).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Pipe
Putin was still trying to energy blackmail Europe back then. It is hard to see the explosions as anything else but a threat that the Baltic Pipe could also be blown up -- and the Nord Stream pipes weren't very useful to Russia at that point so it wouldn't cost much to lose them.
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#668The Swedish team currently investigating the explosion might be able to confirm or refute parts of this account: can they find fragments of the sonar-activated detonator?
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#669Earlier quoted context omitted.
That option disappeared when Russia invaded Ukraine, not when the pipeline was blown up (at least if you rate human life over economics). Nobody should buy anything from a regime like Putin's Russia.
It's fine to buy gas from the USA, the butchers of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Yugoslavia though?
It’s telling that this post includes stopping a genocide as a bad thing, I.e. the UN stopping the Bosnian genocide in the fracturing Yugoslavia as a bad thing.
Coincidentally, the Russian sphere is one of the groups mad about the UN involvement in Bosnia and Serbia
Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”
#670Earlier quoted context omitted.
"You could probably write a similar one with Russia ..." I disagree - there is no credible motive here for Russia and, in fact, the outcome was directly opposed to every outcome they are, or were trying, to achieve. Not only do I, as a US citizen, believe that the US perpetrated this act but further: I believe it is an overtly hostile action against EU citizens and, particularly, Germans, who will suffer the most eco…
As an EU citizen living next to Russia I can assure you, I'm DELIGHTED that people can no longer buy gas from a mass murderer like Putin. Anyone who buys gas from Russia is essentially supporting genocide of Ukrainian civilians, if suffering is what we're talking about. Besides, things are going on pretty okay. Electricity prices are stabilizing and Europe will eventually become greener as well. No matter who did it,…
Of course you can still buy gas from Russia. It flows in transit through Ukraine:
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russian-gas-europe-v...
So Ukraine is "essentially supporting genocide of Ukrainian civilians"?