Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 1001 posts

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#581

Post by [deleted] »

tootie wrote: post #564
drewda wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seymour Hersh has decades of credibility from reporting the My Lai Massacre to the abuses at Abu Graib. But he does often rely on sources who remain anonymous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh#Use_of_anonymous... I did find it interesting in that Wikipedia article to read that The New Yorker's editor insists on knowing the identify of all of the anonymous sources that Hersh has used when his reporting is p…

It's unfortunate, but Sy Hersh has kinda flown the coop in the last 10 years. He egged on the Seth Rich conspiracy and tried to deny the US killed bin Laden. The New Yorker has basically disowned him and he hasn't had a byline in many years.

[deleted]

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#582

Post by GAN_Game »

beebmam wrote: post #551
LarryMullins wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unsourced, the source is being kept private. That may not seem like a meaningful difference but there is a difference. And that difference is the reason Seymour Hersh's reputation is relevant.

Well yeah, I think Seymour Hersh's reputation is relevant. He's pretty much a conspiracy theorist in this era.[1] Including his claim that the US never killed Osama bin Laden. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh#Criticism_and_co...

> his claim that the US never killed Osama bin Laden

You give a link but it is nowhere in that link. I watched an interview where Hersh talked about how the US killed bin Laden. Hersh has always said this.

Hersh did do reporting that countered parts of the US government story about bin Laden. Namely the idea no high Pakistani army/intelligence/government official knew where bin Laden was in Pakistan. As well as some other things.

The conspiracy theory is believing bin Laden sat in a big compound in Abbottabad with no one important in the Pakistani government knowing this. I guess the US government feels it needs to state this for some diplomatic reason, but it is ludicrous.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#583

Post by RobotToaster »

letrowekwel wrote: post #350
pillefitz wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were quite happy with cheap energy and it was great to have a choice between Russian gas and American LNG, until that option disappeared.

That option disappeared when Russia invaded Ukraine, not when the pipeline was blown up (at least if you rate human life over economics). Nobody should buy anything from a regime like Putin's Russia.

It's fine to buy gas from the USA, the butchers of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Yugoslavia though?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#584

Post by auctoritas »

Who had the most incentive to blow it up?

Definitely not Russia which was using it as significant leverage over the Europeans.

Definitely not the Europeans who were relying on it for energy.

That leaves the US, with willing help from accomplices of course.

We can squabble about Hersh's credentials - no doubt to be dragged through the mud in the coming days as establishment types attempt to discredit him - but the base case for this is that the US is responsible.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#585

Post by Gud »

bjornsing wrote: post #469

> Sweden had applied for membership into NATO, and had demonstrated its great skill in managing its underwater sound and magnetic sensor systems that successfully tracked Russian submarines that would occasionally show up in remote waters of the Swedish archipelago and be forced to the surface. This is not exactly the view of the Swedish navy here in Sweden. No Russian submarine has ever been “forced to the surface”…

Sweden had outstanding naval capabilities during the cold war. The Swedish navy frequently chased away foreign submarines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_submarine_incidents

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musk%C3%B6_naval_base

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#586

Post by The_Double »

rank0 wrote: post #60
dragonwriter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you look at all the players, their interests, and their capabilities, I think the most logical conclusion is that the US likely did it. I disagree. The most logical explanation is tha Russia did it as a capacity demonstration and threat against Baltic Pipe to pressure contries in the region regarding Ukraine, but that, like all their threats against the West over Ukraine policy so far, the threat was hollow.

You think Russia tried to send a message by……destroying its own infrastructure?! It was their biggest leverage over the EU. Now it’s gone and there’s no possibility of restoring Russian gas flows to the EU. If they were gonna destroy critical international infrastructure wouldn’t it make more sense to blow up something else?

There is one thing that might point towards Russia blowing up their own pipeline: Before the pipes were destroyed completely, the Russians were coming up with all sorts of strange excuses for why they were reducing the amount of gas delivered through the pipes. Even though it was obvious to everyone that the reductions were for political reasons, the Russians kept insisting that there was force majeure. So its not completely unthinkable that they would blow up their own pipeline just to not have to announce they are stopping sales of gas to europe.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-turbine-...

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#587

Post by landemva »

throwayyy479087 wrote: post #492
tlear wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is right that sonar buoy detonation thing sounds like absolute bullshit. Incredibly risky and 17 hours.. I mean you want to do this, send a submarine, it fires few torpedoes. No more pipeline. Fast, simple, reliable. Let's say I am a Ukranian patriot, with few million in the bank. I bet given few month I could put together a team of divers to plant some C4 with a simple timer and blow this thing to hell. Or Polish…

I think it’s the Polish. Apparently their relationship with Russia is similar to a very angry pitbull has with steak. They were mass rapes by the Soviets at the end of World War II and horrible conditions for the Polish during the Soviet empire. Polish friends say there’s no shortage of young men who want the glory of blowing up something owned by the people who gang raped Grandma.

[flagged]

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#588

Post by nostromo123 »

No matter what the truth is, in EU there seems to be a touch of "of course it was the Americans", often justified by "that's just what the Americans do".

Well, in hindsight, Russia does not seem to gain from it, in the EU we were lucky that the winter was not very bad, but the US somehow conveniently gets to sell us overpriced gas...

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#589

Post by stephc_int13 »

blub wrote: post #537
stephc_int13 wrote: post #471

There is one thing that is really bothering me in this story. I don't really care who is behind the sabotage, they would certainly not admit it for obvious reasons, and it could be more complex than it seems. But the press, here in the UK, in France and in the US, has been suspiciously "clueless", avoiding with great care to imply that anyone in the west could be behind it, even if it really seems obvious that it cou…

The Western press seems to more or less parrot the government talking points or are even more hawkish themselves. Criticism is offered on minor topics or is feeble and drowned in a torrent of other articles. One could recognize this also with the Coronavirus fiasco when for example the press was parroting the governments saying that the virus is not going to come to Europe and urging people not to be racist against t…

I've also noticed that and found it worrying.

I don't thinks this is a conspiracy of any kind (or at least I hope so) but I wonder if this apparent docile conformity of the press at large is a side effect of the changes that occurred in this field during the past 20 years.

Have they lost that much power?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#590

Post by hoffs »

xg15 wrote: post #535

I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it even though that made zero sense - but absolutely refused to even consider the possibility that the US or another western state could have done it. But at this point, the article is basically "cool story, bro". The only independently verifyable bits are the public statements of Biden, Nuland, e…

>I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it even though that made zero sense

Your ignorance is astounding

Post reply on HN