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Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

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Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#501

Post by [deleted] »

sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #429
alphanullmeric wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a sale or not? If there's not a sale it's not advertising. If it's not advertising it should be allowed, false or not. If it is advertising it's not just speech. You lack the consistency to make your argument work. So again, I guess you're fine with arresting people over light bulbs.

> If there's not a sale it's not advertising. This is a really strange perspective. Advertising is only advertising once the advertised product is sold? A billboard is simultaneously an advertisement and not an advertisement depending on whether the observer has purchased the advertised item? Not the GP but no, I'm not fine with arresting people over light bulbs. I am totally cool with arresting them for fraud if it…

[deleted]

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#502

Post by alphanullmeric »

LadyCailin wrote: post #443
alphanullmeric wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a sale or not? If there's not a sale it's not advertising. If it's not advertising it should be allowed, false or not. If it is advertising it's not just speech. You lack the consistency to make your argument work. So again, I guess you're fine with arresting people over light bulbs.

But now YOU are deciding that “if a sale is involved, speech can be restricted.” Why can I not decide “if it would result in people dying, speech can be restricted?” I mean, if you told me I could only restrict one of these, then surely I would pick the second anyways.

No, I’m saying that if you decide to make a sale, and decide to have it mediated by the government by paying sales tax, then whether or not you get punished for false advertising has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Whether such taxes are voluntary in the first place is a different argument, but I think they should be. So there’s no inconsistency on my side.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#503

Post by [deleted] »

mrtksn wrote: post #20

Erdogan's first speech was almost 2 days after the earthquake and he said "We are monitoring who said what on the social media and tried to provoke the people. Today it's not the day to go after those but we take notes and when the day comes, we will go after them". Just look at his face when delivering this speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doy38aKbMw4 It's like from V for Vendetta. The lighting choice is very…

[deleted]

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#505

Post by foronetimeonly1 »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #95
halilb wrote: post #65

I live in Turkey and was very close to the earthquake epicenter. I can say that communication in affected cities is very limited and Twitter had a real positive effect on organizing help and reaching out to lots of people in the area. So blocking Twitter right now is pure evil. They are only interested in the optics and looking strong for the upcoming election and do not care about anything else. I saw some people wa…

It's a tragedy no nation should face alone. There should be no "looking bad" here, just opportunities to help. Why not embrace that and do whatever you can? Any city would face horrible losses in this situation. Heck, Miami lost half a building on a normal day...

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Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#506

Post by foronetimeonly1 »

colpabar wrote: post #69
sidewndr46 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does this make Erdogan a fool? edit: I legitimately have no idea why I am being downvoted. Can someone explain?

Because when western leaders want to censor information, they claim said information is a "threat to democracy", and everyone just trusts them. (not that it would work - it seems like turkish people actually know how to protest)

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Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#507

Post by egeozcan »

mrtksn wrote: post #479
comboy wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anybody elaborate why? I understand if it's financial crisis or some other gov fuckup. But this is a natural disaster on an unprecedented scale, government may not have enough resources to handle it. What's the game here?

Let me try. So Erdogan himself came into power after the 1999 Earthquake devastating the country and wrecking the economy, leading to early elections, leading to his party winning landslide election in 2002. That earthquake was like nothing seen before, hitting the most industrialised and populous part of the country and they had to introduce new taxes like Luxury consumption tax to fix the damage and prepare so that…

Amazing summary, thank you!

Some additions:

Erdoğan also gained immensely from the economic measures taken after the 1999 earthquake and the following economic depression. He eventually rolled back a significant portion of them, and further wrecked the economy by lowering interests in the face of inflation, and multiple times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkyudz4w5Gc

> the earthquake tax collected wasn't used to be ready for the next quake. This was something widely known and criticized

It was openly admitted by a minister that it was spent on building roads. A lot of those roads have now giant cracks on them, because of the earthquake.

> ministers are giving ridiculous speeches about how everything is under control

One even said that the rescue operations are going slowly to make sure people under the rubble aren't crushed.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#508

Post by slg »

smcn wrote: post #499
slg wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the reason this is becoming a bigger problem across the world is because the US is exporting its ideas of free speech through the internet, tech companies, and social media in a way that wasn't done in prior generations of mass media. I think we need to change the way we think about free speech. We already have laws that restrict free speech when that speech it defrauds or defames an individual. We…

Would Chinas inability to contain conversations give you pause as to how achievable that goal is? Would you be looking at criminalising lies and the spreading of them, even without knowing its a lie? If so, how many people would be prosecuted? If not, how will it help?

China is trying to control conversations as a means of controlling the population. That comes with its own problems that are unrelated to regulating speech.

>Would you be looking at criminalising lies and the spreading of them, even without knowing its a lie?

I don't know what you mean by this. We don't know whether a potentially defamatory statement is a lie or not until there is a trial. This would be no different. We don't need a Federal Truth Commission or anything. American society already seems satisfied letting a jury decide what is or is not a lie today.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#509

Post by vkou »

peyton wrote: post #371
vkou wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, his scenario is not equivalent, but here's a few more: "Hello, this is just a reminder that your voting station will be open between 5 pm and 9 pm in (somewhere where it's not actually located), please remember to vote!" "Hello, if you would like a free ride to your voting station, please text us 'YES', and wait at (location) between X and Y pm (Nobody will show up)." "Hello, we have a great offer for auto insura…

Except for the last, those are just lies that people in power find inconvenient. People were saying way more ridiculous things in the summer of 1787, and yet the country I live in enshrined free speech rights.

> Except for the last, those are just lies that people in power find inconvenient.

A few of them are plain-old voter suppression, and ~50% of the time, people in power find them incredibly convenient.

You don't see them very often, because in most free countries, trying any of them is an incredibly serious offence.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#510

Post by freehorse »

macintux wrote: post #235
tradertef wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Turk, I do not trust people who are using Turkiye in English. That is virtue signaling which is saying they are populist, nationalist etc. etc. I also find the change idiotic at the least though I understand why they did it.

When working with people of different nationalities and ethnicities I emphasize trying to pronounce their names correctly. Why is this different?

I find that impossible to achieve and believe others do. I have no expectation people getting my name right because, apart from other reasons, it contains sounds that do not exist in many standard languages. It would literally require training one to be able to produce new sounds, and that is just not practical at all, not to mention outright impossible for many to do accurately. I guess it is good to try to pronounce things good enough, but "correctly" I doubt.
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