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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#381

Post by throwaway98797 »

empthought wrote: post #367
throwaway98797 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

should all money transfers be traceable by the state? should it be possible to transfer 100k to a friend without the government knowing? i support paying taxes btw i also hope that cash never goes squat but i great it will within 50 years

> Should all moneys be traceable by the state? Yes. It has been this way since Babylon. It is a principle of financial civilization. > should it be possible to transfer 100k to a friend without the government knowing? Of course not.

agree to disagree here

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#382

Post by WaffleIronMaker »

steego wrote: post #313
tossl568 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, Stephen Diehl is not somebody to be taken seriously

Fine - Which crypto critics do you take seriously?

Folding Ideas has a very good documentary on NFTs, and many of the problems faced by cryptocurrency [1].

[1] https://youtu.be/YQ_xWvX1n9g

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#383

Post by momo_O »

jackpeterfletch wrote: post #362
epistemer wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He makes some good arguments and is certainly better read in economics than the youtube conspiracy theory video level/back cover summary of the Creature from Jekyll Island economics most crypto enthusiast stochastic parrot back as truth. The 24/7 crypto is a scam community is extremely odd though. I can't stand the sport of NASCAR but I can't imagine enveloping my entire thought and identity around how much I think N…

Well NASCAR is just a sport. Crypto might well be the biggest vehicle for financial fraud the world has ever seen. Whatever you think of Crypto more broadly, millions of innocent people are being prayed on, who have lost collectively, literally billions of dollars, some more vulnerable to the impact of that than others. To a lot of (good) people, it’s unacceptable to allow that to go unchallenged. So yeah I think I c…

> Crypto might well be the biggest vehicle for financial fraud the world has ever seen.

How do you measure this? If by “total value defrauded” then fiat has to be #1.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#384

Post by ashwagary »

empthought wrote: post #378
ashwagary wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. Even in Hammurabi's code, receipts for agents, witnesses, and contracts, were only used for settling disputes in court where fraud may have been committed. Those instances with conflicting claims were a tiny minority of overall transaction volume, meaning receipts were optional and not required for the vast majority of transactions; especially between trusted parties. As far as that "state" was concerned,…

Incorrect. The reason fraud was rare was because of the general insistence on documentation. Court challenges were rare because people did in fact KYC.

False. What Hammurabi's code describes is a customer keeping proof of agreement for settling disputes which is Know Your Seller (KYS) not KYC, and it was not required.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#385

Post by ravingraven »

ynniv wrote: post #310
ravingraven wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital ownership is enforced by laws and nothing else. There is no amount of code that can technically prevent me from copying any data that lands on my system. >Tokens signed by an app-trusted key solve the problem with almost zero resource cost. This ensures safety against access and not against copying. Of course I can not copy assets I don't have access to but the same is true for NFTs.

I’m not aware of any legal protections available to the person holding the private key that last signed an NFT. Digital property rights are enforced by client apps / DRM as well as legal trade agreements, but legal enforcement will be based on traditional registrations and won’t cover on-chain NFT transactions. You can buy my house’s NFT, but I will still legally own my house. Since, as you point out, DRM can always…

Please refer back to my original comment about people hearing NFTs and for some reason which I fail to understand jump to "physical property". NFTs do not work for physical property but they do for digital.

Enforcement of digital rights is actually easier via NFTs than contracts/client apps etc. because NFTs mathematically can prove ownership (courts just have not caught up yet).

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#386

Post by ravingraven »

joncrocks wrote: post #312
ravingraven wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital ownership is enforced by laws and nothing else. There is no amount of code that can technically prevent me from copying any data that lands on my system. >Tokens signed by an app-trusted key solve the problem with almost zero resource cost. This ensures safety against access and not against copying. Of course I can not copy assets I don't have access to but the same is true for NFTs.

It can be enforced by hardware, and by not allowing the digital asset to be accessible on a system without hardware restrictions present. As all things, technically, theoretically possible to circumvent, but you can make it exceedingly difficult.

No, you can't. Netflix, Youtube etc. (arguably the largest players in the digital properties game right now) have demonstrably failed to do so.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#387

Post by ravingraven »

Gigachad wrote: post #352
ravingraven wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...but ownership of property requires physical and/or legal protections, which they do not. This is not true for digital property. Digital property is just as "made up" as the NFT that proves its ownership. People hear "NFT" and for some inexplicable reason jump to physical art. If the network believes, by whatever consensus methods for proof of ownership that are employed by this network, that you own one coin then…

Why would anyone care about digital ownership? The only reason anyone cares about bitcoin is you can translate it in to physical ownership of things later.

So, you don't care about the movies you watch or the music you hear?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#388

Post by jackpeterfletch »

momo_O wrote: post #383
jackpeterfletch wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well NASCAR is just a sport. Crypto might well be the biggest vehicle for financial fraud the world has ever seen. Whatever you think of Crypto more broadly, millions of innocent people are being prayed on, who have lost collectively, literally billions of dollars, some more vulnerable to the impact of that than others. To a lot of (good) people, it’s unacceptable to allow that to go unchallenged. So yeah I think I c…

> Crypto might well be the biggest vehicle for financial fraud the world has ever seen. How do you measure this? If by “total value defrauded” then fiat has to be #1.

sigh

What point are you trying to drive here?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#389

Post by rawoke083600 »

graybies wrote: post #379
rawoke083600 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ohh please....You think the USD is not being used for this ?

I never said it didn’t. Crypto helps

>Crypto helps ?

Come now ! With that statement(s) I can say, sneakers and comfortable clothes are also propping up the drug-market ? What is your point exactly ?

-I'm sure there are drug dealers using USD and nice sneakers to sell drugs.

-I'm sure there are drug dealers using USD and NOT nice sneakers to sell drugs.

-I'm sure there are drug dealers using Crypto and nice sneakers to sell drugs.

-I'm sure there are drug dealers using Crypto and NOT nice sneakers to sell drugs.

-I'm sure there are drug dealers using Crypto to sell drugs.

-I'm sure there are drug dealers using USD to sell drugs.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#390

Post by tossl568 »

WaffleIronMaker wrote: post #382
steego wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine - Which crypto critics do you take seriously?

Folding Ideas has a very good documentary on NFTs, and many of the problems faced by cryptocurrency [1]. [1] https://youtu.be/YQ_xWvX1n9g

Except he compares Bitcoin's irreversable final settlement transactions per seconds metric to Visa's tps which is more akin to the lightning network. Apples to Oranges.
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