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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#351

Post by miracle2k »

louwrentius wrote: post #299
capableweb wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could somehow get money by dumping a barrel of oil into the ocean and you had no money at all with a hungry family, you'd find it hard to argue against dumping that barrel quickly.

You may (deliberately) miss the point: that people survive this way doesn’t mean it vindicates oil existing. If I have to eat human flesh to survive does this vindicate canibalism?

> You may (deliberately) miss the point: that people survive this way doesn’t mean it vindicates oil existing.

What does it mean to "vindicate" oil existing? It simply does. As does crypto.

Now, some people, maybe you, might ask that people who dump oil into the ocean should be physically punished, even if that is the only way for them to survive. This seems a morally absurd position to me, but so be it.

> That is not really a vindication of crypto, it’s just an extra condemnation of what is happening in Lebanon and Venezuela. And although it may help individuals it is not a sustainable solution to the issues in those countries.

Look, condemnation is not enough. First fix Lebanon and Venezuela, then outlaw Bitcoin afterwards.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#352

Post by Gigachad »

ravingraven wrote: post #244
ynniv wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is a useful mechanism for exchanging value, but NFTs have yet not shown any utility. The difference is that a currency only needs to solve scarcity and double spend, which blockchains accomplish, but ownership of property requires physical and/or legal protections, which they do not. Once you introduce an organization that enforces property rights there's no reason to use an expensive blockchain instead of a…

>...but ownership of property requires physical and/or legal protections, which they do not. This is not true for digital property. Digital property is just as "made up" as the NFT that proves its ownership. People hear "NFT" and for some inexplicable reason jump to physical art. If the network believes, by whatever consensus methods for proof of ownership that are employed by this network, that you own one coin then…

Why would anyone care about digital ownership? The only reason anyone cares about bitcoin is you can translate it in to physical ownership of things later.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#354

Post by LatteLazy »

simplotek wrote: post #339
LatteLazy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 2 really amusing things here: * that so many people think crypto is either perfect or totally evil and admit no middle ground. * that both groups constantly claim their (rather extremist) views are facts but refuse to substantiate them. I wonder how long it will take for people to agree that crypto neither cures cancer nor causes it...

> * that so many people think crypto is either perfect or totally evil and admit no middle ground. Such a strawman right in the leading hypothesis. What makes it so hard for you to face the actual criticism directed at crypto? Do you find it so indefensible that you prefer to avoid it altogether?

Do you think it is possible that at least some part of crypto, was once or will be, at least partly, not a scam?

Because if you do, you already agree with me.

And if not, you're going to have to explain how you know literally everything about 1000s of projects with a billion users...

That's the problem with the ultra extreme position the article and many many people here take.

I'm not here to defend crypto. I am not a true believer. I just find it strange that such a huge complex thing with so many users etc apparently is not just 99.999% scam, but 100%. And some how people have discovered this and know if for fact. And yet are unable to share their sources, or methods...

It's almost like such people have no more idea what is happening than the true believers...

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#355

Post by TomSwirly »

rvz wrote: post #235
nic_wilson wrote: post #181

It may have already been noted elsewhere but it seems important to note that the author was (is?) the CTO of private blockchain start up and choosing to not disclose this in any of his crypto criticism seems very dishonest https://twitter.com/dystopiabreaker/status/14701269278180679...

I guess it would be embarrassing for him to admit that he tried to compete against Ethereum after Cardano destroyed his private blockchain startup. Stephen Diehl is also no better than the crypto maximalists with his extreme absolutism. You won't see him debate and test his arguments with a balanced panel discussion so that you can easily see how extreme his arguments are. He has a book to sell and is full time, 24/7…

Strong cryptography has value, but that was invented in the 70s.

The blockchain will have no value.

It's almost as old as the smartphone, and we still don't have a killer application for it, or any application at all.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#356

Post by TomSwirly »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #303
epistemer wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He makes some good arguments and is certainly better read in economics than the youtube conspiracy theory video level/back cover summary of the Creature from Jekyll Island economics most crypto enthusiast stochastic parrot back as truth. The 24/7 crypto is a scam community is extremely odd though. I can't stand the sport of NASCAR but I can't imagine enveloping my entire thought and identity around how much I think N…

It’s an extension of the culture war. Tons of right wing culture warriors got really rich off crypto without doing anything to deserve that wealth, so left wing culture warriors are naturally opposed to it. You check out /r/Buttcoin, they also hate GameStop (valid) and Elon Musk (much less so, he’s doing great work outside of Twitter despite his immaturity) for those same fundamental reasons. It’s more of the same so…

> so left wing culture warriors

I generally like this site because it has more mature adults.

Perhaps you'd be happier on Reddit?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#357

Post by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #163
TEP_Kim_Il_Sung wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of all USD in existence is digital, so your reasoning falls somewhat flat.

The lack of value for funny internet coins doesn't come from it being digital, it comes from being absolutely worthless because noone wants to take it. When a government, a physical entity is formed and says "the US Dollar is the currency we'll use to exchange goods", you have value in the USD because you know you're going to be able to use it. You'll be able to buy your lunch with it, because the state you live in s…

Dollars have value because they force you to pay taxes with them. They used to be valuable to foreign nations, because the oil cartel OPEC used to force them to use U.S. Dollars to buy oil. Nowadays nations can use Dollars, Rubels, and Yuan.

Wyoming allows people to pay taxes in Bitcoin...

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#358

Post by 1PlayerOne »

leeroyjenkins11 wrote: post #26

I just want currency that won't be arbitrarily inflated, is digital that some group of people can't control my spending. I just want something that is a unit of value that I can trade for things I want. And it doesn't need to be traced either, I don't want the government to know how much I spend on steak.

There is no such thing. And if you keep wanting such a thing, you will be scammed out of your money…

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#359

Post by readthenotes1 »

luma wrote: post #101
rom-antics wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3942181 > For example, illegal transactions, scams and gambling together make up less than 3% of volume. Note that: 1. This quote is talking specifically about bitcoin, not crypto overall 2. This paper is written by a notable crypto skeptic, so he's not using bro logic. He found the main usage by volume is speculation, with very little illegal activity. In fact, the…

The overwhelming volume is in wash trading, which is just a different kind of fraud. It's all fraud.

is using bitcoin to transfer some of l your wealth out of country to avoid currency controls fraud? I don't think so but IANAL

I read that crypto is also being used for rapid cross country remittances, which may be totally legal.

--

Don't think I'm a crypto fan. The value is all based purely on shared beliefs. At least government fiat is backed by the taxing authority (while undermined by the printing authority)

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#360

Post by qwerty456127 »

hcurtiss wrote: post #138
qwerty456127 wrote: post #82

I use cryptocurrencies to pay for services where I want to stay anonymous for no ill/illegal reason. I just don't feel comfortable being watched wherever I go and whatever I do even if I don't do anything evil.

This entire comment section seems premised on this idea that crypto is useful because it's anonymous. But with the exception of a couple tokens like Monero and Zcash, which are rarely used, crypto is significantly LESS anonymous than cash. There's a reason it's called a public ledger. So odd.

Sure, I use Monero, Zcash and mixers. I absolutely can't imagine using BitCoin or similar currencies the plain way so everybody would see precisely where and when, for how much and, indirectly, what I buy - this seems insane, do people really do this?

The only problem still making me feel slightly uncomfortable is I don't understand how do Monero and Zcash achieve anonymity, how is it possible to transfer money without registering who (whose wallet) pays who. Ideally you should understand how do your tools work. But I don't care enough to dedicate time to study this.

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