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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#301

Post by FormerBandmate »

734129837261 wrote: post #140
valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Fun fact: so are Rolex watches and so many other luxury nonsense products with a high price. Wear one on each arm. Travel via airplanes across borders. Sell the watches. Now you have a lot of untraceable cash. Fly back and forth for business purposes seven times in one week. Maybe bring more expensive watches, perhaps that $200,000 USD Patek Philippe is a great way to get that payoff across borders. Crypto and NFTs a…

This is literally why pimps wear so much jewelry. Cops take all your cash when they arrest you, they don’t take your jewels

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#302

Post by acdha »

naasking wrote: post #194
acdha wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really accurate to call things “arbitrary”? Usually if you look at any safeguard you’ll find a real historical problem it was designed to reduce. Sometimes that’s something best solved otherwise – the drug war provides many examples of that - but I’d usually describe those as ineffective rather than arbitrary. The distinction matters because it raises the question of that process repeating again. Since it’s not…

I think an outcome that could have gone another way but for some random historical circumstance counts as arbitrary. For instance, do you think our regulatory framework would look the same today had Prohibition not happened? That's a case where the State created a problem (black market funding large scale organized crime) and then added yet more rules to try and fix that problem. Edit: so one could argue that we "nee…

The common definition of “arbitrary” has a connotation of randomness to it. My point was that this isn't random but directed, and that if you don't understand who those rules serve you'll just end up repeating it in a different form or having the old rule adapted for new purposes, similar to how various measures originally intended to prevent alcohol or drug money being laundered were repurposed as part of the War on Terror but they all stemmed down to the base problem of law enforcement wanting a way to trace previously anonymous cash flows.

Since this was a very vaguely defined claim, it might be more useful if you had something specific to talk about.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#303

Post by FormerBandmate »

epistemer wrote: post #292
rvz wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it would be embarrassing for him to admit that he tried to compete against Ethereum after Cardano destroyed his private blockchain startup. Stephen Diehl is also no better than the crypto maximalists with his extreme absolutism. You won't see him debate and test his arguments with a balanced panel discussion so that you can easily see how extreme his arguments are. He has a book to sell and is full time, 24/7…

He makes some good arguments and is certainly better read in economics than the youtube conspiracy theory video level/back cover summary of the Creature from Jekyll Island economics most crypto enthusiast stochastic parrot back as truth. The 24/7 crypto is a scam community is extremely odd though. I can't stand the sport of NASCAR but I can't imagine enveloping my entire thought and identity around how much I think N…

It’s an extension of the culture war. Tons of right wing culture warriors got really rich off crypto without doing anything to deserve that wealth, so left wing culture warriors are naturally opposed to it. You check out /r/Buttcoin, they also hate GameStop (valid) and Elon Musk (much less so, he’s doing great work outside of Twitter despite his immaturity) for those same fundamental reasons. It’s more of the same social media derangement cycle that sucks in so many people on both sides, even if they fundamentally have a point about a lot of crypto being based on nothing

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#304

Post by tipsytoad »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #77
djha-skin wrote: post #52

OP's arguments: - Like indulgences, crypto made value out of thin air - Indulgences were a scam so crypto is a scam - Crypto doesn't fit with Keynesian economics and is therefore false I am not Catholic, but his tone implying that anyone who is religious is a fool feels more like an ad hominem attack than anything. As to the veracity of Keynesian economics, I am less than convinced he got everything right. That said,…

At this point, crypto is useless. Are people making money trading it? Yes. Can regular people do anything with it? No. With as much money that has been poured into crypto related businesses, I still can't easily send or transact business with it.

For normal people maybe, but for illicit activities an untraceable currency is incredibly useful. So not entirely useless :/

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#305

Post by jqpabc123 »

zirgs wrote: post #293
naasking wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exchanges are not necessary for crypto. Not sure why you're conflating them. Also, there is no central authority telling exchanges how they have to operate, that they have to collect certain kinds of data or regulate certain kinds of transactions (in theory). If you don't like an exchange's rules you can move to another or create your own fairly easily. By contrast, consider how difficult it would be to start a bank.

Yeah, I remember when cryptobros talked about self-contained crypto economy. In that ideal scenario exchanges aren't necessary. But 14 years have passed and nothing has come of it. Off-ramps are still necessary. Exchanges that deal with real money have to abide by rules and regulations of their jurisdiction. Governments can tell them what to do. Crypto exchanges that deal with crypto only can indeed hide from governm…

Off-ramps are still necessary.

Sooner or later, everyone is faced with the necessity of interfacing with reality.

You can't escape gravity (physical or financial) just because you don't like it or don't trust it. Gravity doesn't care what you like.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#306

Post by angio »

dmitriid wrote: post #176
angio wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use it for USDC, which is much better than buying dollars on the black market.

So they don't use cryptocurrencies per se. They pay people in us dollars aka fiat. Same as companies using offshore bank accounts for the same purpose, or paying out cash in envelopes. People getting paid in USDC of course still need to convert a large amount of it into local cash/cash-equivalent because they still have to pay rent, pay for food etc.

They use a blockchain to transact in USDC because it's more convenient that posting cash across borders. Freelancers usually don't have the financial means to open offshore companies.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#307

Post by DonHopkins »

mdrzn wrote: post #9
senttoschool wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone else just want to hold some coins. Until those people inevitably get rug pulled, scammed, ponzied. Then they will be convinced. Actually, most people who "hold some coins" know 99.99% of crypto is a scam but they still do it anyways in hopes of making money.

So what is the utility in writing the same articles and screaming the same points over and over again, to those who are still holding coins, and are clearly not interested in selling because "it might go to zero"? "You're an idiot, it's a scam, it's a ponzi, why are you still holding????" Live and let live.

Because it makes the other cockroaches come out of the woodwork and reveal themselves by attacking him for speaking the truth.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#308

Post by DonHopkins »

ur-whale wrote: post #175
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because one sees the damage to individuals and society, and wants to try to help to mitigate it? Not selfish enough of an explanation?

>Not selfish enough of an explanation? Selfish isn't the word I would use, no. Self-righteous and do-gooder do come to mind quite quickly though.

What's wrong with annoying the do-badders and their shills?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#309

Post by j0hnyl »

fredley wrote: post #74
jillesvangurp wrote: post #67

You don't need crypto to run a scam. Financial scams are as old as money is. The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. There isn't. In fact, you could argue that the enormous activity of scammers in this space actually points to some inherent qualities that might be useful beyond just running ponzi schemes and other scams. One of these qualities is…

> The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. I think this goes without saying: money and financial systems are regulated—to some degree—everywhere in the World. They are regulated by Governments, and there are real penalties for evading those regulations and getting caught. Many of these regulations were put in place to prevent the kind of shenaniga…

Crypto is insanely regulated. For example, anyone who touches it in the US has to report every single transaction when they do their taxes. Not to mention the heavy hurdles involved in establishing an exchange.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#310

Post by ynniv »

ravingraven wrote: post #290
ynniv wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital ownership is enforced by the code that’s interpreting the data, so the app publisher is the organization responsible for enforcing property rights. Tokens signed by an app-trusted key solve the problem with almost zero resource cost.

Digital ownership is enforced by laws and nothing else. There is no amount of code that can technically prevent me from copying any data that lands on my system. >Tokens signed by an app-trusted key solve the problem with almost zero resource cost. This ensures safety against access and not against copying. Of course I can not copy assets I don't have access to but the same is true for NFTs.

I’m not aware of any legal protections available to the person holding the private key that last signed an NFT. Digital property rights are enforced by client apps / DRM as well as legal trade agreements, but legal enforcement will be based on traditional registrations and won’t cover on-chain NFT transactions. You can buy my house’s NFT, but I will still legally own my house. Since, as you point out, DRM can always be broken, there is effectively no enforcement of NFT property rights at all.
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