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Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

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Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#151

Post by j16sdiz »

quaintdev wrote: post #124
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perplexity https://www.perplexity.ai/ does it well in my opinion. It builds a paragraph answering your query but it has a lot of footnotes that link directly to websites. Ex: "geopolitical reason for palm oil being banned and why it's bad for health" The EU has banned palm oil in biofuels due to its negative impacts on health[1] and its geopolitical implications, such as favoring alternative crops grown in Europe[2].…

But if I have info I need why would I visit links in footnotes

because ChatGPT loves to make up some “facts” in authoritative tone?

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#152

Post by luxcem »

safog wrote: post #49
afavour wrote: post #13

ChatGPT as a search engine sounds amazing but also really quite problematic. It's an extension of the issue with Google's "instant answers" (or whatever they're called): right now the creators of the content Google/ChatGPT scrapes are usually paid via the advertisements on their pages. When no-one clicks though any more, no-one gets paid. I know, I know, the ad banner-funded web is a mess and I wouldn't mourn its dem…

In general, generative models are taking publicly available content from creators and are monetizing them for big tech. Same with stable diffusion, AI art. And it'll be the same with LLMs. Eventually the whole internet would be flooded with cheap AI generated content and clearly AIs need human generated content to train on so it'll be the snake eats itself.

> clearly AIs need human generated content to train on so it'll be the snake eats itself.

For the time being but there is no reason AI couldn't produce genuine original content. Real life human artists also use previous content for inspiration.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#153

Post by j16sdiz »

merely-unlikely wrote: post #106
safog wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, generative models are taking publicly available content from creators and are monetizing them for big tech. Same with stable diffusion, AI art. And it'll be the same with LLMs. Eventually the whole internet would be flooded with cheap AI generated content and clearly AIs need human generated content to train on so it'll be the snake eats itself.

That’s not so different from the current state of the world in which many search results are full of cheap SEO content. Now instead of appending Reddit to my search I just go to chatGPT. Probably similar levels of accuracy between Reddit and GPT anyway while the SEO content is just garbage filler.

Until Search-Engine-Optimization is replaced with Chat-Bot-Optimization..?

A chat bot, like search index, need to updated for new and current events to stay relevant. I can’t see why it can’t be deceived by spams

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#154

Post by flir »

rchaud wrote: post #75
htrp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2 years later the Bold was released and everyone realized it's just a hastily designed iPhone clone. That marks the end of BB's dominance. I feel like Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. You can talk all you want about the foundational models and how advanced they are, but the search product itself will require a ton of…

> Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. I don't know that end-users really care about having a GPT-written paragraph accompanying their search results. Is there some other kind of output AI search currently provides that I'm missing?

On the basis of "if you're not paying, you're the product", maybe it's expected to open up whole ways to put ads in front of people. Google not being in the forefront of a new ad market would certainly do bad things to their share price.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#155

Post by Raidion »

monknomo wrote: post #126
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perplexity https://www.perplexity.ai/ does it well in my opinion. It builds a paragraph answering your query but it has a lot of footnotes that link directly to websites. Ex: "geopolitical reason for palm oil being banned and why it's bad for health" The EU has banned palm oil in biofuels due to its negative impacts on health[1] and its geopolitical implications, such as favoring alternative crops grown in Europe[2].…

just wondering aloud, but say like this eats google's lunch and search goes away. These chatbots provide answers, and footnotes. In a world like this, where the need is reduced to actually go to a website, what's the incentive for maintaining a website that no one visits? After a couple rounds of "adversarial training data evolution," that is, people optimizing their websites to get mentions by chatbots, will the bot…

It's the dying out of the "middle" of the value curve. You end up with a market that's dominated by cheap "good enough" products for casuals and "products built to last" for power users.

So if you have a low effort website that's factual and text based, you're going to get your lunch eaten by GPT, if you have a higher effort website (subscription gated with lots of multimedia content and user engagement) you'll be fine.

Think of all the blogspam recipe sites that are going to run into trouble when ChatGPT learns to cook well. Lots of text, little additional value, no community. There still will be America's Test Kitchen because people on the upper end of the value curve don't just want a recipe, they want pictures + video of that recipe being made and a place where they can ask questions and get answers.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#156

Post by jaggs »

lm28469 wrote: post #149
jaggs wrote: post #91

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npV4Kix7Td0 If this was a startup, they would be dead in the water. Nothing of substance, awful sound, 9:45 mins in they don't have a key piece of live demo equipment (the phone)/ As someone else said, it's like they asked a couple of interns to rush something out in 24 hours. No wonder the stock price is tanking. Awful display from Google.

Damn that was painful to watch. They seem utterly disconnected from how people actually use their phones in real life. Finding elevators and atms with AR ? Is that the future google is selling ? Who's buying. If google maps was the equivalent of the invention the printing press that would be the invention of scented toilet paper

I've got to say it was one of the most painfully bad presentations I've ever seen, from any company or organization. Spectacular fail.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#157

Post by brookst »

bsaul wrote: post #110
brookst wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google’s dominance is because of network effects; the largest search engine collects more data about what people are searching for and has the largest ad inventory, making it hard to compete with. ChatGPT has similar network effects with feedback. If Google is displaced, it will likely be in favor of another single dominant solution, not a commoditized industry with lots of players. It’s possible that niche domains l…

With this kind of reasoning there would be no way to disrupt a first actor in a new field.

Depends on the field. Fields with strong network effects, like social media, lend themselves towards strong incumbents. But usually the market changes faster than an incumbent can, so disrupting comes from changing users needs rather than someone building a better mousetrap to serve the same needs.

But lots of industries don't have particularly strong network effects. Cars are a good example; there's brand affinity, but there's no particular reason you need to drive the same brand as your neighbor. There are scale economies, so it's still not easy for new entrants.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#158

Post by yamtaddle »

safog wrote: post #49
afavour wrote: post #13

ChatGPT as a search engine sounds amazing but also really quite problematic. It's an extension of the issue with Google's "instant answers" (or whatever they're called): right now the creators of the content Google/ChatGPT scrapes are usually paid via the advertisements on their pages. When no-one clicks though any more, no-one gets paid. I know, I know, the ad banner-funded web is a mess and I wouldn't mourn its dem…

In general, generative models are taking publicly available content from creators and are monetizing them for big tech. Same with stable diffusion, AI art. And it'll be the same with LLMs. Eventually the whole internet would be flooded with cheap AI generated content and clearly AIs need human generated content to train on so it'll be the snake eats itself.

The Web never really replaced books as information sources for important things. The way to access most of the best stuff available via the Web is to... download ebooks, thus leaving the Web, if not just the "buy" button for real, physical books.

The single most intellectually valuable website on the entire Web is very likely Library Genesis, where the only Web content is a catalog of books you can pirate by clicking a link, and it's, like, a lot more valuable than any other site (even Wikipedia). It may well be more valuable, in those terms, than the entire rest of the Web combined.

If serious book publishers survive a while longer and if non-fiction books aren't overrun with dubiously-accurate AI bullshit, things won't actually change all that much, I think.

As far as written content goes, the (public) Web is most useful for opinions or product discovery, and even those can already hardly be trusted because of all the marketing astroturfing. AI garbage barely changes that already-toxic dynamic.

Video's another matter—some video content on the Web is great and has ~no at-least-as-good replacement anywhere else, in any other medium. But it's also all but completely monopolized by Youtube and hardly participates in or factors into the broader Web.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#159

Post by Graziano_M »

malexw wrote: post #86
guardiangod wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you are right. It's the Storm with the clicky screen. Fun trivia- Most of the BB employees in my department switched from Storm to Bold when the Bold was released. As a result I had a pile of Storm in my drawer as my test devices.

I'm not sure if you're mis-remembering or I am, but the Bold 9000 (meteor) launched the year before the Storm. Though maybe you meant the 9700 (onyx)? As I recall, the development cycle for Storm wasn't two years - it was less than a year. At that point it was the fastest cycle that RIM had ever had for a device, and it was done at the request of Verizon. Back then the iPhone was still an AT&T exclusive in the US mar…

Yep I stuck with the 9000 and then the 9700, and then finally 9900 (Probably played with a Torch in between). Was fun being able to dog food those phones, but also depressing knowing that the Storm was going to be shit.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#160

Post by flir »

noelsusman wrote: post #122
AJ007 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually I do a search, looking for specific facts, like what is the pricing for X? On Google you get to click through links and read a lot of filter, ads, promotions, etc. Why not just get the answer? A huge percentage of searches are for existing websites, like "facebook." This might not be a big challenge if you just wanted to go to facebook. This morning I saw a retweet from a Google/former Deepmind engineer, of s…

As a random experiment I asked both platforms "What is the current average mortgage rate?" https://www.perplexity.ai/?s=u&uuid=6f7fe592-c11f-4df9-a2bf-... https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+current+average+... Google's results were far more informative and usable. I then tried something I thought would be more up Perplexity's alley: "Who was the first US president with a last name starting with R?" https://w…

> The first US president with a last name starting with "R" was John Quincy Adams, whose middle name started with "R". If you're looking for a president whose last name starts with "R", then the first would be James A. Garfield.

ChatGPT is amazing, until it isn't.

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