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Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

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Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#141

Post by indymike »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #80
rchaud wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackberry Storm was released in November 2008, which is a year after the iPhone, not 2 years. The first Android phone came out just a month before in October. I was in NYC for job interviews then I saw billboards for both everywhere.

Yup. What I would note is that Palm, like 7 months later, had the first real competition but Sprint just screwed them. Android took until the Droid to be competitive and the Nexus One/Galaxy S to be actually convincing as an alternative.

This isn't true at all. The G1 (first widely marketed android phone) was superior in all ways but one: Marketing. The iPhone wasn't really competitive on the hardware front until the 3g which finally added GPS and a fast cellular modem.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#142

Post by ajross »

Someone wrote: post #125
ajross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the bigger problem is how does something like ChatGPT fit into Google's business model for search. Alternatively, how does ChatGPT fit into the usage model for search? I know it's taken on faith in this forum that somehow Google[1] search is bad or failing or about to be killed or whatever. But... it's actually just fine? It does what the market wants, more or less perfectly. Everyone uses it to find the 99…

> Alternatively, how does ChatGPT fit into the usage model for search? I don’t think it does fit into it, but search is a means to an end. What people want is to find stuff. For that, it might work. I also agree with you that Google already works for it in many cases, though. For example, if you ask Google for the weather in Foo, it first shows you the weather in Foo, then ads from advertisers who claim they can answ…

You don't think a ChatGPT product would... show ads? Something has to fund it, right? I mean, I get that the response will be that it will be supported by some other business model (hardware sales a-la Apple, windows licenses for MS, etc...). But... then it's not an argument about AI at all but about business models.

So... if alternative business models haven't disrupted search in the last 20 years, why are they going to start now?

I just think this is turning into an HN echo chamber. AI will absolutely be revolutionary and disruptive, but it's a long road from "revolutionary disruptive technology" to "Mighty Hammer That Will Destroy All My Imagined Enemies".

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#143

Post by yamtaddle »

bushbaba wrote: post #33
htrp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2 years later the Bold was released and everyone realized it's just a hastily designed iPhone clone. That marks the end of BB's dominance. I feel like Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. You can talk all you want about the foundational models and how advanced they are, but the search product itself will require a ton of…

Google can’t compete with Microsoft without having a huge revenue hit. The large majority of Google’s revenue comes from search ads. Chat gpt doesn’t have search results, per se. So how do you keep the high ad revenue linking to other sites? I’m not sure they can compete within their existing brand/company structure.

I don't think Google can credibly put out an assistant like this, without harming revenue.

If they make it promote stuff for pay, it's worthless—you already have to second-guess whether it's right because it might accidentally be wrong, if it might also just be acting as a paid promoter, that puts it firmly in "easier to just not use it" territory.

If they put one out but don't make it into an AI infomercial, then it eats ad revenue and investors get pissed off.

But if they do nothing they're clearly headed for trouble, too.

They're in a tough spot.

My guess is they're release something, but keep it strictly separate from search in hopes that it won't replace search traffic. I doubt that'll be enough long-term but it might quiet fears for a while.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#144

Post by lolinder »

jowday wrote: post #140

For people in this thread convinced that Google is scrambling to come up with a ChatGPT competitor - that’s only true on the product side. Internally, LamDA has been available with a chatGPT style interface for years (maybe more like 18 months).

The product side is all that matters here. If Google cannot productize it, then all they did was do other people's homework for them. And it increasingly looks like Google has zero plan for productizing it.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#145

Post by justinzollars »

afavour wrote: post #13

ChatGPT as a search engine sounds amazing but also really quite problematic. It's an extension of the issue with Google's "instant answers" (or whatever they're called): right now the creators of the content Google/ChatGPT scrapes are usually paid via the advertisements on their pages. When no-one clicks though any more, no-one gets paid. I know, I know, the ad banner-funded web is a mess and I wouldn't mourn its dem…

> ChatGPT as a search engine sounds amazing but also really quite problematic. I don't think I want to chat with Bing or Google.

I think you are correct. These are two distinct products.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#146

Post by duckmysick »

quaintdev wrote: post #124
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perplexity https://www.perplexity.ai/ does it well in my opinion. It builds a paragraph answering your query but it has a lot of footnotes that link directly to websites. Ex: "geopolitical reason for palm oil being banned and why it's bad for health" The EU has banned palm oil in biofuels due to its negative impacts on health[1] and its geopolitical implications, such as favoring alternative crops grown in Europe[2].…

But if I have info I need why would I visit links in footnotes

The same reason there are sources in the footnotes on Wikipedia: so you can double check or read further.

I like to think of ChatGPT and the like as an on-demand personalized Wikipedia: a good starting point, comes with strings attached, not always correct (but some are fine with it).

ChatGPT doesn't link sources yet but I saw that the beta test context search from Kagi had them.

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#147

Post by drakmo »

rchaud wrote: post #75
htrp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2 years later the Bold was released and everyone realized it's just a hastily designed iPhone clone. That marks the end of BB's dominance. I feel like Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. You can talk all you want about the foundational models and how advanced they are, but the search product itself will require a ton of…

> Google is going to bleed credibility for every month that they don't have a lamda/llm enabled search integrated into the home page. I don't know that end-users really care about having a GPT-written paragraph accompanying their search results. Is there some other kind of output AI search currently provides that I'm missing?

A case I had right now. Just try to google this: When migrating from Swagger 2 ApiOperation annotation to OpenAPI 3.0 Operation by what attribute is nickname replaced? And then ask ChatGPT ...

Google is done

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#149

Post by lm28469 »

jaggs wrote: post #91

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npV4Kix7Td0 If this was a startup, they would be dead in the water. Nothing of substance, awful sound, 9:45 mins in they don't have a key piece of live demo equipment (the phone)/ As someone else said, it's like they asked a couple of interns to rush something out in 24 hours. No wonder the stock price is tanking. Awful display from Google.

Damn that was painful to watch. They seem utterly disconnected from how people actually use their phones in real life.

Finding elevators and atms with AR ? Is that the future google is selling ? Who's buying. If google maps was the equivalent of the invention the printing press that would be the invention of scented toilet paper

Re: Google's live from Paris event private/deleted immediately

#150

Post by luxcem »

UncleMeat wrote: post #115
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perplexity https://www.perplexity.ai/ does it well in my opinion. It builds a paragraph answering your query but it has a lot of footnotes that link directly to websites. Ex: "geopolitical reason for palm oil being banned and why it's bad for health" The EU has banned palm oil in biofuels due to its negative impacts on health[1] and its geopolitical implications, such as favoring alternative crops grown in Europe[2].…

A link is useless if you can't verify it. Just linking to the "nih.gov" homepage is meaningless, I have no ability to click through and verify that "ah yes, this page does demonstrate the claim being made." The system could just link to arbitrary homepages of respected institutions and claim that they back up whatever is being said.

The links are actual pages not just the homepage. "nih.gov" is just the link title.
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