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Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

economist.com

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Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#291

Post by wonderwonder »

taylodl wrote: post #289
wonderwonder wrote: post #30

This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anyth…

People were saying these exact same things back in the 1980's. It's a right-wing bogeyman and they use it to scare people because it works. Just like it did with you. The thing is racism, at least the racism that actually matters to people's quality of life, is systemic. You're black? Higher mortgage rate for you, even if all other factors are the same. You're Asian? Then you're probably the better student, even if a…

"It's a right-wing bogeyman and they use it to scare people because it works. Just like it did with you."

Your right, I'm an idiot unable to think for myself. Me and everyone else that believes this. People who believe as you do are the only intelligent ones able to think for themselves.

Everything I have experienced related to DEI is not real and part of the massive collective hallucination experienced by anyone that doesn't 100% support it.

Being told to "sit in my shame" was good. The VP of DEI responding to Asians expressing fear during the rash of unwarranted attacks on them a year ago by other minorities by telling them white supremacy was to blame was good.

Thank you for showing me the light.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#292

Post by taylodl »

onetimeusename wrote: post #163
cmh89 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Banning books Everyone bans books. I am surprised this is such a meme because you probably won't find many supposed free speech activists also being in favor of putting Mein Kampf in the student library for the children or teachers teaching Creationist perspectives on science. I think there needs to be a question of merit about what is taught, no?

What are you talking about? Everybody should read Mein Kempf just so you can understand how populism works.

As for Creationism? It absolutely should be taught in science class to help students distinguish between what is science and what is pseudoscience. You may as well make sure they understand what a scientific theory is while you're at it.

I'd throw in the Satanic Bible too as it actually defines what humanism is. That's useful info for anybody living in a modern democratic society not founded on a religion.

Throw in some Camus and Nietzche and these kids will have the knowledge they need to take on this world head first!

But, those kind of people don't make for docile laborers who are content to work to fulfill the dreams of others. So we make sure they don't have access to these kinds of books.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#293

Post by tablespoon »

taylodl wrote: post #290
tablespoon wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning books and trying to erase people from society due to their sexual orientation is draconian. That framing is extremely misleading and tendentious. For instance: school boards making decisions about what to stock in their libraries is not "banning books," it's democracy. However, misrepresenting that as "book bans" cranks up the outrage, which is beneficial in partisan an ideological conflict. It's also frequ…

You may not have heard the news, Florida took that power away from school boards. That may be why you're getting downvoted.

> You may not have heard the news, Florida took that power away from school boards. That may be why you're getting downvoted.

That doesn't affect my overall point, though. I'm not "banning a book" if I refuse to purchase it or dispose if it after I've purchased it, likewise it's not a ban if some level of government does the same thing. If someone wants to read that book, they can buy it or borrow it from someone who chooses to lend it out. The "book ban" language is just tendentious outrage framing.

I mean, I would be surprised if literal pornography is available to be checked out from any school library in the US, even though it's frequently consumed by high-school aged kids, and no one can reasonable claim that's "banned."

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#294

Post by shadowgovt »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #270
shadowgovt wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't "ability to work with people of a diverse background" also one of the merits in a very, very diverse society?

If my goal is to hire e.g "the best physicists" in the world then its probably going to be low on my list. Particularly in stem where disagreeableness is high in general. Also if a University is optimizing for say "Most High Impact Research published" by a prospective hire, their skin color is going to be pretty irrelevant.

So assuming that's what the university is optimizing for, I can see your point.

As noted in peer comments in these threads though, universities aren't solely in the business of pure research. They optimize for a wide band of goals, including teaching, grant acquisition and use, and publication. Those are human interaction skill-spaces, not particle-behavior-comprehension skill spaces.

And even in the realm of pure research: of the top ten big physics and astronomy institutions, four are in Europe (across three countries), one in China, one in Japan, two in Russia, and two in the United States. The ability to work cross-culturally with diverse people is extremely important for physics collaboration in the 21st century.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#295

Post by [deleted] »

cmh89 wrote: post #194
willcipriano wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some images from books banned in Florida schools for K - 3 students by the "don't say gay" bill (censored but not safe for work): https://www.senatoraument.com/blurred-explicit-examples/ People can make their own choice if they think this is good content for nine year olds.

I enjoy that they added censor bubbles to make the pictures seem worse than they are after having me attest to being over 18. Top-tier scare mongering.

[deleted]

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#296

Post by thwayunion »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #165
wonderwonder wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friend my current jobs mandatory training stated that if I try to help a person that happens to be a minority and they yell at me and berate me for assisting them that I must not argue back and should "sit there in my shame". That's really all I need to know. While I have much deeper opinions on the topic, I'm fine just stopping there, I don't want my kids to live in a world where that sort of instruction is the norm…

Well friend, you appear to be working in an aggressively progressive company because I currently work in government and have friends who work in academia and have never heard of anything even close to the likes of that. I think it's possible you're (intentionally or not) misunderstanding their message.

No kidding. I think most anti-woke folks have a hilariously inaccurate mental model of academia.

On more than one occasion I heard professors in our department talking about the boobs and asses of female undergraduate and graduate students, make weird remarks about homosexual faculty, and even one comment about how black people don't enjoy math anyways.

I think a lot of the super weird stuff is not so much that academia is radically free-speech or anything and more just that professors stay around until they're 80 and 80 year olds say crazy shit.

But, anyways, a lot of faculty/grad student lounges/offices would make your average anti-woke corporate worker bee blush.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#297

Post by wonderwonder »

taylodl wrote: post #292
onetimeusename wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning books Everyone bans books. I am surprised this is such a meme because you probably won't find many supposed free speech activists also being in favor of putting Mein Kampf in the student library for the children or teachers teaching Creationist perspectives on science. I think there needs to be a question of merit about what is taught, no?

What are you talking about? Everybody should read Mein Kempf just so you can understand how populism works. As for Creationism? It absolutely should be taught in science class to help students distinguish between what is science and what is pseudoscience. You may as well make sure they understand what a scientific theory is while you're at it. I'd throw in the Satanic Bible too as it actually defines what humanism is…

Honestly most kids would benefit from just having a yearly class on debt and budgeting. It's a core skill for being a successful adult and 90% of us don't do it. I know it's a different topic but I've always been amazed that it's not a core or the core skill taught in school.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#298

Post by rayiner »

jrm4 wrote: post #167
onetimeusename wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banning books Everyone bans books. I am surprised this is such a meme because you probably won't find many supposed free speech activists also being in favor of putting Mein Kampf in the student library for the children or teachers teaching Creationist perspectives on science. I think there needs to be a question of merit about what is taught, no?

Stop. There is a universe of difference between curating selections for children's and/or adult libraries, and a government official stepping in to control and/or ban books. The former is part of the job, the latter is overreach.

Librarians are public employees. They are given a lot of discretion in how they do their jobs. But like any employee, their discretion can be overruled by people in charge of the organization.

What you’re suggesting is that unelected librarians have some sort of independent authority over deciding what books children should be exposed to that isn’t subject to review by elected officials. There’s an extremely short list of such roles in government—pretty much just government prosecutors and similar positions. Librarians, teachers, etc., are just employees hired to do what the elected government wants them to do.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#299

Post by rayiner »

cmh89 wrote: post #193
wonderwonder wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if that's the case then I would probably have to vote for Desantis again. Florida economy is doing well. No Income tax and it's currently the fastest growing state by population so others must think the same.

Sure, the quality of life affluent white people in Florida is pretty great, especially when the US government bails you out after every big storm. Not everyone is an affluent white person though.

I understand that acting like all the minorities are on your side is the standard democrat playbook. But that rhetoric is just tone deaf when you’re talking about a Republican governor that just won re-election in one of the most diverse states in the country (just 51% non-Hispanic white). DeSantis not only won by 20% overall, he won Hispanic voters by 15 points: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/elections/20...

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#300

Post by wonderwonder »

thwayunion wrote: post #253
wonderwonder wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When forced to choose between the effects of Gerrymandering vs my kids being penalized for the rest of their lives for being white then I am forced to choose Gerrymandering every time and I hate that this is the choice I'm presented with. I'm not a fan of Desantis at all but I am even less of a fan of this woke (I hate using the term, it sounds like a caricature) movement. My kids happen to be white, heterosexual mal…

FWIW, I am a white, heterosexual male. I wrote a DEI statement that did not mention ethnicity, sexuality, or gender. I consistently got praise for my DEI statement in faculty interviews. I am fairly confident I am one of the only straight white males in this comment section who has applied to faculty positions and received job offers, across a variety of institution types. I am almost certain I am the only one in thi…

That's cool. I'm not talking about college at all but have no reason to doubt your position. I'm talking about not wanting homosexuality or transexuality presented as an option by teachers to my elementary or middle school kids. I don't want school age girls to have to compete with boys in sports. I don't want my kids to get penalized while looking for a job because they are white or male, I want them to succeed or fail based on their merits.

DEI that I have experienced in the work place is very aggressively anti white and anti male and openly advocates against giving women and minorities a step up over them. DEI teaches that white men are aggressive and old fashioned and essentially a detriment and should learn their place. White supremacy is positioned as the source of all wrongs in the world including the spate of anti asian violence perpetrated by other minorities a couple years ago. I am not presenting this opinion as something I have heard about rather I am presenting it as something I have experienced (openly, not inferred) over my last few jobs.

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