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Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

economist.com

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Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#151

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

wonderwonder wrote: post #124
jrm4 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clumsy for sure. Potentially dangerous in the future, I think. But I really really really need for people, like you, who are annoyed by it and whatnot to really see the bigger picture here. I have no problem turning the dial down on "DEI" as practiced if and only if we effectively address and recognize the ways in which these people actively do throw minorities under the bus in other ways; e.g. gerrymandering, r…

When forced to choose between the effects of Gerrymandering vs my kids being penalized for the rest of their lives for being white then I am forced to choose Gerrymandering every time and I hate that this is the choice I'm presented with. I'm not a fan of Desantis at all but I am even less of a fan of this woke (I hate using the term, it sounds like a caricature) movement. My kids happen to be white, heterosexual mal…

> My kids happen to be white, heterosexual males, they should not be vilified for it and that's the route I see so many pushing for.

This statement seems incredibly hyperbolic. Do you believe that DEI statements are simply "how intersectionally oppressed are you"? Have you had to answer any of these yourself? What were the exact questions?

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#152

Post by hgielatan »

Manuel_D wrote: post #150
hgielatan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Find it! You keep posing these questions, but refuse to do the work of arriving at the solution yourself, which you are entirely capable of doing. Go answer your own questions! I can't find it because most of your links are either broken or paywalled. Go post the excerpts that say "we define racial diversity as...". Here's an example of mismatch between one of your working links and our diversity policies: > To dra…

[flagged]

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#153

Post by Manuel_D »

hgielatan wrote: post #152
Manuel_D wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Find it! You keep posing these questions, but refuse to do the work of arriving at the solution yourself, which you are entirely capable of doing. Go answer your own questions! I can't find it because most of your links are either broken or paywalled. Go post the excerpts that say "we define racial diversity as...". Here's an example of mismatch between one of your working links and our diversity policies: > To dra…

[flagged]

Your link to McKinsey still fails. As does the one to UC Denver. And other than your 2nd link, the papers are paywalled.

> And your company misimplementing DEI is not a reflection of DEI itself, just a reflection of how difficult it is to get these kinds of things right.

Exactly the point I was making all along. The criteria for "diversity" used in research does not match what's almost always used in company DEI discrimination.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#155

Post by katscradle_1989 »

efficax wrote: post #26

DEI statements are just one factor in the hiring process for faculty. Generally they'll get scored by the hiring committee on some numeric scale (like everything else in the application). A low DEI score might not tank your application if you're in a field where everyone else has a low DEI score, or if you are absolutely outstanding in your field but have middling DEI because you're a white, male scientist from an af…

This is ridiculous and also one of the reasons why Asians absolutely blow everyone else out of the water when it comes to academics and careers.

"Yes, you can still theoretically have a shot, you just have to be XXX% better than a {non-white-non-asian}{non-male}"

When you make it so one demographic has to grind a lot harder to get the same opportunities, you're only going to increase the gap between them.

Also this:

>so that other things being equal

Comical. So yes, all things being equal, you will not get a job vs another candidate strictly because they have the "correct" race and you don't. This is literally institutional racism. I'm supposed to tell my son that he has to study 10x harder, work 10x harder just to make sure he doesn't fall in the threshold where this DEI score won't hurt him?

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#156

Post by 988747 »

gray_-_wolf wrote: post #123
kevingadd wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While some DEI policies are arguably discriminatory, many are not. If you know that the general population is 20% race A, 10% race B, 30% race C, and yet your admissions are only pulling in 40% race C, 5% race B and 55% race A, you know something is wrong. Policies designed to keep your admissions closer to the general population would not count as discrimination because if everything is functioning correctly your di…

> If you know that the general population is 20% race A, 10% race B, 30% race C, and yet your admissions are only pulling in 40% race C, 5% race B and 55% race A, you know something is wrong. Doesn't this ignore the fact that there actually might be biological differences between various races of humans? I mean, aren't most top runners black? I don't follow this closely, but it does seem there is bigger percentage of…

You ignore the fact that DEI people aren't after equality, they are after revenge.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#157

Post by WkndTriathlete »

SilverBirch wrote: post #35

This is such a "ugh" topic. Of course it's kind of absurd to be like "Write me an essay on how Woke you are", but it's the inevitable result of pretty low quality individuals trying to solve a real problem. Academia has obviously been historically discriminatory, and due to the massive problems with the structure of US universities it still has all sorts of problems. The way to fix that is obviously to bring in senio…

> Academia has obviously been historically discriminatory, and due to the massive problems with the structure of US universities it still has all sorts of problems.

Which problems, in particular? At the big land grant school I attended in the 1990s minority representation in classes and teaching positions exceeded their demographic representation in the surrounding area.

Fast-forward 30 years and the same is true at the big school my kid is attending now with the notable exception of one minority.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#158

Post by hgielatan »

remarkEon wrote: post #138
esporx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You can read the law in question here[1]. Parents must have a venue to object to instructional content, and porn in school libraries is already illegal under a prior law about giving porn to minors. What is unclear about this? [1] https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1467/BillText/er/...

[dead]

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#159

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

fallingknife wrote: post #108
wonderwonder wrote: post #30

This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anyth…

> I dislike Desantis for many reasons but ended up voting for him specifically for this reason and a couple of other cultural issues. Yeah, I hate the Republicans. But I vote for them now.

I guess this is the new single issue voting?

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#160

Post by eat »

I wonder how much the appearance of these daily anti-DEI stories on the front page of HN has to do with this recession and workers' propensity to look for convenient scapegoats in the face of recent massive layoffs. Certainly looks to me that there's a lot of fear and anxiety out there that's being pointed in some... interesting directions.

Don't direct that fear and anxiety upward in the org chart though, wouldn't want that :)

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