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Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

news.bloombergtax.com

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Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#21

Post by cultofmetatron »

grevrevr wrote: post #3
foxyv wrote: post #2

But, why? We WANT people to buy electric cars... It's like the patient isn't breathing, bleeding to death and the nephrologist wants us to test their kidney function.

Buying an EV and maintaining your existing driving habits is like drinking only one bottle of Jack a day while dying of liver failure.

I agree but its just not practical in a lot of places due to idiotic urban planning. Euclidean zoning and urban sprawl have become the cancer of america. In many places, there are no places close by to just hangout. just my parent's place one has to drive (no sidewalks) 3 miles to get milk at he gas station and thats pretty good by american standards.

Until we fix that, (more mixed use zoning, higher density, consistent predictable and readily availale public transport options) cars are the only option for a lot of people

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#22

Post by prmoustache »

pxtail wrote: post #11
foxyv wrote: post #2

But, why? We WANT people to buy electric cars... It's like the patient isn't breathing, bleeding to death and the nephrologist wants us to test their kidney function.

Governments want their sweet, sweet tax - I hope you didn't imagine the future where one is charging their EV car tax free from offgrid PV installation or some similar nonsense - that's ridiculously non-green solution!

[dead]

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#23

Post by comte7092 »

bwindels wrote: post #7

Isn't (battery) weight a proxy for what we really care about, energy consumption per covered distance? Seems like if you'd tax the latter, manufacturers would have more options to innovate around efficiency rather than just battery weight and provide lower-taxed vehicles. Battery weight will of course still be important to get consumption down, but perhaps there are other ways as well to make cars more efficient. One…

In the US at least, the gas tax (in concept, not really in reality) what we care about is wear on roads. Therefore a tax on gasoline was actually just a proxy for what we cared about, which was wear on roads.

Taxing battery weight is a better method in this instance, because wear is directly proportional to vehicle weight.

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#24

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

xt00 wrote: post #8

Probably the only useful thing in the article is highlighting that some EVs are so heavy that their stopping distance from 70mph can be a much larger distance than people would expect at over 200ft. It might be safer for the driver of that heavy vehicle but a 9000 lb truck rear ending you is going to be pretty rough.

Not to mention if EVs (especially SUV model EVs) become the norm, roads are going to get a LOT worse due to the inflated curb weight. It's already bad here in the south along many busy semi truck routes, but imagine all the small suburban roads having to be resurfaced sooner and sooner.

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#25

Post by comte7092 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #20
Daishiman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To counteract these needless cynical takes - someone has to maintain roads and roads are funded by taxes on gas and municipalities, which means vehicles that pay no taxes from gas of from the local municipalities are freeloading. Moreover roads wear out to the fourth power of the vehicle's mass, which means if anything that light vehicles subsidize those heavier ones regardless of emissions.

Infrastructure spending is really not that big of an expense regardless of who's doing it. Many/most roads are economically worthwhile (or are a low enough cost to be a justifiable luxury) on their own albeit some (mostly in rural areas) at lower standards of maintenance.

I don’t know where you got that idea from. Road maintenance is actually quite a significant expense for municipalities.

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#26

Post by thinknubpad »

Why not simply tax vehicles relative to the wear that they induce on the road, i.e. total weight^4?

It'll be hard to implement a "gas tax" for electricity with so many people charging at home. Why not simply tax people relative to the maintenance costs which they incur?

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#27

Post by kelseyfrog »

vuln wrote: post #14

I keep seeing the _right_ claim the _left_ is coming for my truck with increased taxes based on weight. My 2018 GMC 1500 Crew Cab 6.5ft bed Light Truck weighs ~5,300 lbs. I looked at the weight of some of these EVs and yikes 2,900 lbs for just the battery pack? 1.5 TONS? WeW. I'm all for higher taxation on heavy and commercial vehicles to help with road maintenance and up keep. That being said I only drive my truck w…

If weight taxes increase linearly in order to distribute road wear, heavy vehicles are a steal. The rule of thumb is that road wear increases scale with respect to the fourth power[1][2] of vehicle weight. Taxing at a linear rate would disproportionately affect lighter vehicles.

1. !

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AASHO_Road_Test

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#29

Post by kj4ips »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #21
grevrevr wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying an EV and maintaining your existing driving habits is like drinking only one bottle of Jack a day while dying of liver failure.

I agree but its just not practical in a lot of places due to idiotic urban planning. Euclidean zoning and urban sprawl have become the cancer of america. In many places, there are no places close by to just hangout. just my parent's place one has to drive (no sidewalks) 3 miles to get milk at he gas station and thats pretty good by american standards. Until we fix that, (more mixed use zoning, higher density, consist…

I agree heartily. In order to gain access to "good", reliable internet, I had to move to the former "new-money" part of town, which is now pseudo-affordable. There is extremely limited non-vehicular options. The road out of the subdivision has zero shoulder, a one-way bike lane, and no sidewalks. Local residents don't respect the pedestrian easement, and ignore the posted speed limit across low visibility hills. The times I've walked that route, I've either been threaded with violence for "trespassing" or almost struck by vehicles. Never once has the bike lane or easement been unobstructed the whole way.

Other parts of the subdivision connect to a "greenway", but it is very broken up with missing sidewalks, and only has limited crosswalks. It really is only useful for getting to a nearby park (which is nice), but not for any essentials.

Some of the local residents (including myself) have been asking the city for some funding (or even to take advantage of grants) to improve the walk ability, but there is a smaller contingent of more influential folks that either threaten lawsuits should the city install sidewalks/walkpaths, or just take up tons of time so that everyone is tired and wants to go home by the time we get to speak.

While we've gained some visibility and good rapport, we've not really managed to change anything, and it's starting to feel futile.

Re: Taxing the Weight of EV Batteries Would Be a Real Green Solution

#30

Post by kj4ips »

Having read the above, I definitely agree that the Hummer EV is an exercise in American excess, just like the H1-H3 before it. I'm personally in the favor of miles traveled method, with modifiers for curb weight and anything else that impacts the intended uses of said tax. Specifically, I'd like to see an odometer based system charged at tag renewal (or in arrears, to make it more predictable).

Then reduce&repurpose the current gas tax for uses to mitigate externalities caused in post-sale use.

I'm also in favor of a similar externalities penalty for electrical generation (even though the current state of combustion generation is much cleaner than a typical ICE), so that economic forces are able to operate taking that into account.

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