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Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

economist.com

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Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#51

Post by shadowgovt »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #25
shadowgovt wrote: post #5

> Professor Halley believes these innovations are “forced speech and viewpoint discrimination in the First Amendment context” That's an interesting viewpoint and I'm not sure how it squares with a university's First Amendment right to freedom of association. After all, they're at liberty to grant tenure to whomever they think is worthy of it, by their own criteria. If they think that a tenured physics professor's vie…

I think we'll find a pendulum effect where schools that lean far into DEI are going to lose out on top students, grants, researchers, etc. They'll have to readjust and swing back into pedagogy because it will be very clear that if e.g. UC Berkeley is training students in DEI and not as much focus is spent on the actual subject matter their students won't start great companies, they won't get PhD's at other top school…

That's going to be the pudding the proof would be in, indeed.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if they not only continue to generate excellent students and research but excel because the diversity theories are correct.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#52

Post by ergonaught »

SilverBirch wrote: post #35

This is such a "ugh" topic. Of course it's kind of absurd to be like "Write me an essay on how Woke you are", but it's the inevitable result of pretty low quality individuals trying to solve a real problem. Academia has obviously been historically discriminatory, and due to the massive problems with the structure of US universities it still has all sorts of problems. The way to fix that is obviously to bring in senio…

I was asked to describe the diversity within my private life during a job interview last year. It was a relatively lower end position, not even vaguely academic, and neither the role nor the company have any particular applicability to "diversity".

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#53

Post by HNAbusesUsers »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #27
onepointsixC wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is such a brutal cutthroat battle for faculty positions, you have zero choice but to participate. An acquaintance was applying for faculty positions and every single position they were applying to required a DEI statement. It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry.

Just lie about it when it does. Nobody verifies my impressive resume claims. Just my employment dates and degrees, if even those. So claim you ran a workshop for transgender black women. Nobody is going to dig deep enough in most cases to know if it is true.

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Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#54

Post by onepointsixC »

efficax wrote: post #26

DEI statements are just one factor in the hiring process for faculty. Generally they'll get scored by the hiring committee on some numeric scale (like everything else in the application). A low DEI score might not tank your application if you're in a field where everyone else has a low DEI score, or if you are absolutely outstanding in your field but have middling DEI because you're a white, male scientist from an af…

What you described is insane and illegal. Hiring on the basis of race is illegal. Demanding a pledge to offset some perceived original sin because of your immutable attributes is abhorrent.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#55

Post by HNAbusesUsers »

shadowgovt wrote: post #17
PM_me_your_math wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairness is not a tenant of the new cultural revolution, nor are the revolutionaries responsive to human nature, individual rights, or even capable of rational and critical thought. The end always justifies the means, with little care given to the truth or reality of whatever means is co-opted and tortured to advance their end. You must adhere to the core beliefs, which will change depending on the red fool's soup de…

TBF, fairness also wasn't a tenant of the old cultural revolution either. That's why these things keep happening. A free and civilized society has allowed the oppression, dispossession, and outright murder-without-consequence of far, far too many of its citizens to traipse along unquestioned.

[dead]

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#56

Post by efficax »

fallingknife wrote: post #37
efficax wrote: post #26

DEI statements are just one factor in the hiring process for faculty. Generally they'll get scored by the hiring committee on some numeric scale (like everything else in the application). A low DEI score might not tank your application if you're in a field where everyone else has a low DEI score, or if you are absolutely outstanding in your field but have middling DEI because you're a white, male scientist from an af…

If you are absolutely outstanding in your field you should always prevail. Also, if you didn't know, hiring candidates based on race is explicitly forbidden by federal law (Title VII Civil Rights Act of 1964). The fuss is absolutely not overblown.

they're not hiring based on race, they're hiring based on the way they score a statement about one's commitment to, history with, and future plans for advancing diversity, equity and inclusion in the university setting. you can be black and have a terrible dei statement. it just happens that minorities are more likely to have had involvement with these issues for most of their academic lives.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#57

Post by [deleted] »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #16
onepointsixC wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is such a brutal cutthroat battle for faculty positions, you have zero choice but to participate. An acquaintance was applying for faculty positions and every single position they were applying to required a DEI statement. It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry.

> It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry Hard disagree. This is the type of thing only colleges do, it’s the equivalent of an essay and also displays how different academia is from the professional world. No one cares about publications in industry, and people buy into this stuff much less sincerely than in academia

[deleted]

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#58

Post by catiopatio »

sokoloff wrote: post #21
shadowgovt wrote: post #5

> Professor Halley believes these innovations are “forced speech and viewpoint discrimination in the First Amendment context” That's an interesting viewpoint and I'm not sure how it squares with a university's First Amendment right to freedom of association. After all, they're at liberty to grant tenure to whomever they think is worthy of it, by their own criteria. If they think that a tenured physics professor's vie…

This doesn't seem like forced speech at all. Having to recite the Pledge of Allegiance (as I did, or felt like I did) is forced speech. Asking a question as part of an application isn't forcing any specific speech in response. "I think many DEI initiatives are treating a symptom of a genuine problem in society and think that striving to treat every individual in a fair manner and ensuring they feel included in my lab…

The pledge of allegiance is idiotic forced speech, but it’s also meaninglessly anodyne.

DEI statements have right and wrong answers, and giving the wrong answer will disqualify you from a job, and ultimately, filter anyone who disagrees out of the academy entirely.

That’s very dangerous forced speech.

Your example, by the way, would score very low as a DEI statement.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#59

Post by raxxorraxor »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #42
raxxorraxor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people share these values? They are implemented by authority. And some new values are old mistakes that are repeated ad nauseum. Kissing the scepter doesn't mean you love the scepter. Rejection is a strong possibility. Most ideas do die (dei?).

People share these values. The most dangerous unforced error is to fool oneself that true-believers don't exist. Deciding the because one must be forced to believe universalizes into other's being forced to believe is an empathy gap. If you wish to understand how how these ideas take root, don't fall into the "enemy is strong and weak" trap. Deciding that oneself believes because principles but others believe because…

There are certainly a lot of true believers. And intellectuals often reflect future changes in society, but I think the ship for DEI has sailed as the ideas from its opposition are on the table as well. Even if inertia creates new initiatives today and tomorrow. And the alternative ideas are more popular among intellectuals. Maybe not academics, but intellectuals.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#60

Post by MisterBastahrd »

colpabar wrote: post #24
onepointsixC wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is such a brutal cutthroat battle for faculty positions, you have zero choice but to participate. An acquaintance was applying for faculty positions and every single position they were applying to required a DEI statement. It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry.

It's only a matter of time until it's required by law to be employed, which is pretty fucked up when you remember that health insurance is so closely tied to employment, in america at least.

That could actually be a net benefit for society considering that the people who are most likely to hold views outside of the DEI norms are also the ones who are most likely to vote against candidates who support real healthcare reform.
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