Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 396 posts

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#171

Post by ly3xqhl8g9 »

TomGullen wrote: post #139
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a deflationary currency. I hear the country got into trouble with those 90 years ago, but if the only alternative is a hyperinflationary currency, the dynamics of a deflationary currency might be a danger worth approaching.

Temporarily deflationary, when all Bitcoins are mined what happens next?

If by some weird magic I had today all the BTCs forever locked in Nakamoto's wallet, currently around $23 billion, I would give them all away just to be able to live in 2140, the year the last BTC will be mined. So I guess BTC is actually a currency after all, haha.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#172

Post by ur-whale »

mdrzn wrote: post #2

"Every day I write something about crypto to the nature of “crypto is all a scam”" Yet he still write daily about Crypto. Very weird. Whoever wanted to be convinced that is a scam should be convinced by now, everyone else just want to hold some coins.

> Very weird.

Not weird.

He found a way to make himself sound important on the internets and therefore clings to it.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#173

Post by sidewndr46 »

mabbo wrote: post #37
ShowalkKama wrote: post #16

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

The killer app for crypto is "KYC-less" which usually means "I can evade taxes or sell illicit goods". Otherwise, real money is faster, more scalable, and more resilient to users making mistakes. Nothing I do is illegal; I pay my taxes; sometimes I make mistakes. Why would I ever want to use crypto over real money?

Have you ever paid for anything substantial with real money? It's a huge pain in the ass. I have to go into a bank, even during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. I have to pay outrageous fees to transfer money & participate in something called a "wire". Where my money will simply be magically transferred to another party somehow. There are a zillion steps, none of which are disclosed to me. It should work fine, but it is also takes an indeterminate amount of time. No one can explain where the money is in the interim period. Also the money could go to the wrong person. Also, the other party has no way of knowing the money arrived. I have to call them and remind them that I sent it & they need to check to see if their bank received it.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#174

Post by denton-scratch »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #67

You don't need crypto to run a scam. Financial scams are as old as money is. The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. There isn't. In fact, you could argue that the enormous activity of scammers in this space actually points to some inherent qualities that might be useful beyond just running ponzi schemes and other scams. One of these qualities is…

> I expect banks to gradually incorporate these tools into what they do.

Perhaps you expect right:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/06/britcoin-di...

But why?

If you use a debit card, you earn interest on your balance, and there's no anonymity. Britcoin supposedly won't bear interest. How do they implement traceability? Surely not blockchain - that's an environmental disaster. So presumably a centralized ledger, which WILL be hacked, even if the BoE runs it. But they probably won't - the current government doesn't like the state running anything. If the high street banks wanted to offer shitcoin acccounts, they'd already be doing it; so I guess Britcoin will have to be implemented by the sort of people who are already into shitcoin.

[Edit] If you use coins and banknotes, you get anonymity AND interest on your balance. What's the potential benefit of Britcoin?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#175

Post by ur-whale »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #21
mdrzn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the utility in writing the same articles and screaming the same points over and over again, to those who are still holding coins, and are clearly not interested in selling because "it might go to zero"? "You're an idiot, it's a scam, it's a ponzi, why are you still holding????" Live and let live.

Because one sees the damage to individuals and society, and wants to try to help to mitigate it? Not selfish enough of an explanation?

>Not selfish enough of an explanation?

Selfish isn't the word I would use, no.

Self-righteous and do-gooder do come to mind quite quickly though.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#176

Post by dmitriid »

angio wrote: post #146
dmitriid wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes. The well-known stability of crypto... with value swings that put most volatile currencies to shame.

They use it for USDC, which is much better than buying dollars on the black market.

So they don't use cryptocurrencies per se. They pay people in us dollars aka fiat.

Same as companies using offshore bank accounts for the same purpose, or paying out cash in envelopes.

People getting paid in USDC of course still need to convert a large amount of it into local cash/cash-equivalent because they still have to pay rent, pay for food etc.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#177

Post by danuker »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #136
naasking wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no product being sold The product is clearly the ability to exchange financial value friction-free and with no middle men or central authority. The various crypto coins achieve this property quite well with various tradeoffs on speed, anonymity, etc.

with no middle men or central authority. The exchanges are both --- the middle men *and* the central authority. They set the "financial value" of crypto. They mint their own "stable coins" at will without any verifiable backing and use it to trade against their own "customers" --- because there is nothing to prevent it. And yes, I am aware of the peer-to-peer exchanges --- which provide no real, practical alternative…

You can trade with third-parties, and if you want a paper trail you could notarize the trade, without having to submit your data to a huge private centralized database.

Two services I admire:

https://localbitcoins.com/

https://bisq.network/

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#178

Post by jhbadger »

baryphonic wrote: post #161

> However, crypto represents a divergence entirely from a Keynesian worldview in that it has created this bizarre simulacrum of markets with all the trappings and veneer of finance but which has no pretense of being tethered to the economic problem at all. No goods, services or resources are being exchanged. Crypto is a Keynesian beauty contest for zero-sum get-rich-quick schemes. I call it the nothingness game, a bi…

The US dollar is pretty much the de facto currency of places where the official currency is unstable/distrusted. Places like El Salvador made a big deal of adopting Bitcoin, but it was mostly smoke and mirrors.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#179

Post by atdrummond »

Be grateful you live in the EU or the US and don’t need crypto. It has been a major lifeline for my family and friends in Lebanon and Venezuela, both of which lack fully functioning financial services. I can send Bitcoin just fine though!

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#180

Post by trotro »

mabbo wrote: post #37
ShowalkKama wrote: post #16

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

The killer app for crypto is "KYC-less" which usually means "I can evade taxes or sell illicit goods". Otherwise, real money is faster, more scalable, and more resilient to users making mistakes. Nothing I do is illegal; I pay my taxes; sometimes I make mistakes. Why would I ever want to use crypto over real money?

Didn't think I'd see a "I've got nothing to hide" argument on HN. Are you also against E2E messaging apps for the same reason?

Being able to anonymously transfer value should be a fundamental right, as part of our fundamental right to privacy. In the past, cash could be used for that, but with society going increasingly cashless and some governments trying to make large cash transfers illegal, crypto is now the only way to keep this right.

Post reply on HN