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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#131

Post by jacknews »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #35
valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Gambling. Crypto is globalized gambling. It's a money laundering vector, for sure, but for the same reasons crypto competes poorly in the transaction market it's close to a last resort for high-volume launderers.

"Gambling. Crypto is globalized gambling."

Completely and utterly unlike and in no way whatsoever similar, at all, to stock markets, futures exchanges, CFDs, options, CDOs, etc, etc, etc.

Crypto is just a speculative digital asset. Sure it's been a playground for all kinds of scams and charlatanry, because there's no oversight, just as stock markets once were (and still can be in some areas eg pink sheets), but crypto is not a scam in itself.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#132

Post by TomGullen »

ShowalkKama wrote: post #16

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

Some people also log on to live blackjack at 3am and drop a few thousand dollars just for the fun of it as well. You are in a very small minority.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#133

Post by SuoDuanDao »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #70
ShowalkKama wrote: post #16

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

"crypto as a payment method" 1 BTC currently is 22,987 USD. "The 2023 Honda Civic has a base MSRP of $24,650" [1]. No sane person, i.e. person not having more money than they can count [2], wanting to buy a car would ever spend the 1 BTC today for a Honda Civic, maybe the 'market' will go up and they will be able to afford a 48K Mustang Mach-E, or maybe it will go really up and be able to afford a 250K Lucid Air Sapp…

It's a deflationary currency. I hear the country got into trouble with those 90 years ago, but if the only alternative is a hyperinflationary currency, the dynamics of a deflationary currency might be a danger worth approaching.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#134

Post by detrites »

Some here are pathetically-misinformed regarding crypto's utility and social benefits. Read the Latin America section of Chainalysis 2022 report (Pgs. 19 - 27) before claiming "it's all a scam" (and so spreading mis-information):

https://go.chainalysis.com/rs/503-FAP-074/images/2022-Geogra...

For those not aware, the company that produced this report, Chainalysis, actively aids prosecution of illegality in the crypto space, acting as primary advisors to the FBI, IRS etc. They may just know what they're talking about:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainalysis

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#135

Post by dmitriid »

angio wrote: post #64
mabbo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer app for crypto is "KYC-less" which usually means "I can evade taxes or sell illicit goods". Otherwise, real money is faster, more scalable, and more resilient to users making mistakes. Nothing I do is illegal; I pay my taxes; sometimes I make mistakes. Why would I ever want to use crypto over real money?

Just out of curiosity, which country are you based in? Because for people based in countries with high inflation, crypto is a great tool to get paid in usd and reinvest it without being forced by their governement to convert it into their currency. Obviously, if you're based in a country with a strong currency and where all financial intstruments are available, that's not important.

Ah yes. The well-known stability of crypto... with value swings that put most volatile currencies to shame.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#136

Post by jqpabc123 »

naasking wrote: post #104
jqpabc123 wrote: post #24

Not just a scam, it is the *ultimate* scam. There is no product being sold. People are being convinced to surrender working currency in exchange for a public database entry that records the fact they were duped.

> There is no product being sold The product is clearly the ability to exchange financial value friction-free and with no middle men or central authority. The various crypto coins achieve this property quite well with various tradeoffs on speed, anonymity, etc.

with no middle men or central authority.

The exchanges are both --- the middle men *and* the central authority.

They set the "financial value" of crypto. They mint their own "stable coins" at will without any verifiable backing and use it to trade against their own "customers" --- because there is nothing to prevent it.

And yes, I am aware of the peer-to-peer exchanges --- which provide no real, practical alternative but to more or less follow along with the prices set by centralized exchanges.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#137

Post by Karunamon »

qsort wrote: post #93
fredley wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. I think this goes without saying: money and financial systems are regulated—to some degree—everywhere in the World. They are regulated by Governments, and there are real penalties for evading those regulations and getting caught. Many of these regulations were put in place to prevent the kind of shenaniga…

The fact that crypto people will tell you with a straight face that the irreversibility of transfers is a feature and not a bug should be enough of a tell...

Anyone who's ever been screwed by PayPal or the like has plenty of reason to support the irreversibility of transfers. That's not to say that there should not be a way to recoup losses, but the fact that a third party can just pull money out of your account, pecunia ex machina, goes way too far in the other direction. And no, the reams of incomprehensible legalese that supposedly justify this are not good enough.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#138

Post by hcurtiss »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #82

I use cryptocurrencies to pay for services where I want to stay anonymous for no ill/illegal reason. I just don't feel comfortable being watched wherever I go and whatever I do even if I don't do anything evil.

This entire comment section seems premised on this idea that crypto is useful because it's anonymous. But with the exception of a couple tokens like Monero and Zcash, which are rarely used, crypto is significantly LESS anonymous than cash. There's a reason it's called a public ledger. So odd.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#139

Post by TomGullen »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #133
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"crypto as a payment method" 1 BTC currently is 22,987 USD. "The 2023 Honda Civic has a base MSRP of $24,650" [1]. No sane person, i.e. person not having more money than they can count [2], wanting to buy a car would ever spend the 1 BTC today for a Honda Civic, maybe the 'market' will go up and they will be able to afford a 48K Mustang Mach-E, or maybe it will go really up and be able to afford a 250K Lucid Air Sapp…

It's a deflationary currency. I hear the country got into trouble with those 90 years ago, but if the only alternative is a hyperinflationary currency, the dynamics of a deflationary currency might be a danger worth approaching.

Temporarily deflationary, when all Bitcoins are mined what happens next?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#140

Post by 734129837261 »

valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Fun fact: so are Rolex watches and so many other luxury nonsense products with a high price. Wear one on each arm. Travel via airplanes across borders. Sell the watches. Now you have a lot of untraceable cash. Fly back and forth for business purposes seven times in one week. Maybe bring more expensive watches, perhaps that $200,000 USD Patek Philippe is a great way to get that payoff across borders.

Crypto and NFTs are just easier, less risk, less chances of being caught.

Maybe we should talk diamonds. Inherently worthless objects, easy to hide and transport, easy to make part of jewelry, and thus free to transport almost anywhere. Yet that one tiny rock can cost tens of thousands and will allow the corrupt politician to sell for cash money perfectly fine.

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