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Bard and new AI features in Search

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Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#651

Post by andrewstuart »

xtracto wrote: post #545

At this point, Microsoft should do whatever it can to make a deal with Apple to place a ChatGPT powered platform in the iPhone/i Devices. Most of the people using "computers" nowadays do it through mobile phones, and Google has a strong grip in that market with Android, with only Apple giving them some competition. Thus the only platform where Microsoft could really compete is in iOS. If Microsoft + Apple could get t…

I'm pretty sure Tim Cooke would have already allocated vast billions to Apple's own AI platform.

AI is now the biggest game in town - Apple is not going to leave it to Microsoft and Google.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#652

Post by lumb63 »

Am I the only one who feels like Google is missing the mark in more than one way?

First off, I have no idea what Google uses AI for today in any of its products. Google today is about as useful (or useless, perhaps, since I’ve switched search engines) to me as it was 10 years ago. I don’t care, either. If I don’t find myself thinking “I really need AI in Google’s products to achieve this”, why should I care?

> But increasingly, people are turning to Google for deeper insights and understanding — like, “is the piano or guitar easier to learn, and how much practice does each need?”

I want my search engine to search the web for that information. I have no interest in it amalgamating that data for me and performing who-knows-what transformations to it before serving me the data with no traceability to primary sources and no way to validate it without redoing the job myself. I can’t be the only one who wants their search engine to search, can I?

> In 2018, Google was one of the first companies to publish a set of AI Principles.

Google was also one of the first companies to fire an AI researcher for what he said about the AI he developed. Google also has shown zero regard for ethics as it has exploited monopoly position in ad markets and consumed small companies to squash competition. I have no trust in Google.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#653

Post by Itsdijital »

saberience wrote: post #556
gretch wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosure: work at google YouTube was founded in ~2005. Google bought it in 2006. It is now 2023. YouTube has spent 2 years as its own company and 17 as part of Google. Try to remember what YouTube functionality was in 2006. It was very different and has grown a lot. The narrative that Google doesn’t know how to innovate YouTube doesn’t add up.

Youtube now is 90% of what it was 10 years ago and what might it good in 2006 is the same reason it's good now, the UI is clean and it's easy to use. That's it. Also, following the acquisition, for many years most of the people working on it were the original Youtube folk, not the "Google people." Google hasn't shown they can do new product in a very long time... see the GCP mess, Stadia, and the hundreds of other to…

Google has to dump Sundar and bring in a more old school leader. Google is a massive company and has to stop doing it's "everything is beta all the time, with teams internally competing for the same territory"

I'm so put off by it, and been made a fool by it so many times, I'm phasing out Google in my life and long ago stopped recommending Google products to people in my life.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#654

Post by Der_Einzige »

shawntan wrote: post #567
jiggawatts wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So my question is, how hard of a problem is that with LLMs? I get the sense that LLMs are trained on a very large data set all at once, but that it is difficult to incrementally update them with new data. It's the opposite. Getting an LLM to learn the basics of grammar and paragraph-level language structure is the "hard" part. Once you have that, further fine-tuning, specialisation, or other incremental changes are…

Grammar is surprisingly easy to learn from unstructured data, to an extent. (source: I spent a lot of my PhD doing this kinda thing.) Continual learning seems to be a tough problem though, from what I'm seeing of my friends working on this problem. Like I said in another comment, just doing gradient updates form new data is fraught with problems. RL has a bunch of techniques to mitigate issues that arise with that, b…

Well, yes, but the tokenization schemes are causing these models to struggle on actually following syntactic rules in poetry, e.g. syllable counts in hiakus, rhymes. I actually wrote an entire paper which gwern cited about how to make LLMs always follow these kind of constraints with no mistakes.

https://paperswithcode.com/paper/most-language-models-can-be...

If you don't believe this is a problem, try getting ChatGPT to write a paragraph of correct English which omits words which use the letter "e" in it. Too bad you can't use my technique on ChatGPT since they don't expose their output probability distribution...

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#655

Post by edgyquant »

EGreg wrote: post #549
RangerScience wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Do you also need a way to "forget" things? Like - hmm. I could see taking a snapshot after the grammar/language stuff is in, and then every N weeks retraining on the current web, adding in something about recentness, but that doesn't seem like "continuous" training. I'd imagine "continuous" training would be, well, going on continuously, all the time, but that would mean that, to include "recentness", something…

Well, according to Europe's Right to Forget, these AIs have to forget some stuff about you if you ask them to :)

You have to delete the data sure, but what about the “memories” the model has via its weights?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#656

Post by brigandish »

adammarples wrote: post #586
Denzel wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these conversations have one glaring omission. As it stands right now, ChatGPT is a net negative on the ecosystem it exists in. What does that mean? ChatGPT extracts value from the ecosystem by hoovering up primary sources to provide answers, but what value does ChatGPT give back to these primary sources? What incentivizes content creators to continue producing for ChatGPT? Right now, nothing. ChatGPT (or its des…

They don't need to solve that problem. Lots of things cannabilise on others without needing to pay them back to be viable. Wikipedia is really just a collection of sources, summarized. It owes nothing to the authors of the source material and does not seek to redress the balance. Google is a sophisticated filter for sources, it doesn't need to pay anything back to them to provide value for the searcher. Same with cha…

> Wikipedia is really just a collection of sources, summarized. It owes nothing to the authors of the source material

And yet it provides references and attribution where possible most of the time.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#657

Post by throwaway1851 »

rushingcreek wrote: post #433
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #304

Question for AI experts out there: ChatGPT is awesome, but it is obviously hamstrung by the fact that it crawled the web at the end of 2021, so all of its data is essentially "frozen" and it doesn't "know" of any topics that occurred after 2021. Seems to me like the next "holy grail" in large language models is building a model that can be continually updated. If Google can achieve that, I think they could leapfrog O…

https://phind.com (YC S22) uses LLMs grounded in internet contexts to answer questions. There's an interesting tradeoff between grounding LLM answers in web contexts and answering questions from parametric memory like ChatGPT. The former is more accurate and verifiable, but the latter can be more creative and specific to you. We will have both of those answers soon. (Disclaimer: I am the co-founder).

Hi. I remember reading a question answering paper from Google in 2021 that concluded there was little evidence that models were actually grounding the generated answers in the contexts. Do you know if this problem has been solved?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#658

Post by sebzim4500 »

jensensbutton wrote: post #356
theropost wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love for this to be true. I bought into the Google ecosystem in a huge way, but it seems like they have been more focused on the data collection, and advertising end of things, rather than the innovation, and productivity enablement one. Their ecosystem has consitently been a let down in many regards, and they have lost a lot of forward momentum. I hope they can super charge this stuff, but I feel their corporate…

They just brought this extremely innovative thing to market in very little time. The problem may have been that they haven't really had any competition in their core business to push them in a long time.

>They just brought this extremely innovative thing to market in very little time.

Did they? Where can I use it?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#659

Post by stoniejohnson »

lumb63 wrote: post #652

Am I the only one who feels like Google is missing the mark in more than one way? First off, I have no idea what Google uses AI for today in any of its products. Google today is about as useful (or useless, perhaps, since I’ve switched search engines) to me as it was 10 years ago. I don’t care, either. If I don’t find myself thinking “I really need AI in Google’s products to achieve this”, why should I care? > But in…

What search engine have you switched to?

Maybe I've just been tuned to use Google effectively, but Bing/DuckDuckGo results are horrid except for very simple things, while Google gets me exactly what I want in the first ~5 results.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#660

Post by Itsdijital »

mrkramer wrote: post #578
adrr wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google’s inability execute is why they will lose the AI war. The fact the CEO has to write this article to wall street shows that they were caught offguard and have no real plans. If they had plans, why would Google management declare a code red over chatGPT? Take the difference between Microsoft and Google. Microsoft just released tools that will make your life much easier. Intelligent Recap of teams meetings, abili…

Sundar needs to go? And who will replace him? Larry and Sergey? They figured out the early web but the web of today is the whole another beast that is waiting to be understood.

Sundar needed to be kicked out years ago.
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