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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
41–50 of 898 posts
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#42"...it would be beneficial if DEI initiatives were confidential and kept "hush hush" within a company." "...is nothing short of corporate virtue signaling." It might be most beneficial for individuals if it's kept-low key. It's best for the company to scream it to the world. Or at least that's what the leaders think right now. Personally, I think any medium to large company that talks about DEI and isn't addressing t…
>They should be putting their money where their mouth is and sponsoring scholarships/internships/apprenticeships. I worked at a BigCo that did all the usual DEI garbage and their only initiative that actually had results was the one where they spent a bunch of money sponsoring "women in stem" stuff at the high-school and college level.
My company at least used to bring high school students to the company for a women in STEM tour. I believe they stopped it. I have no idea if it worked or not. It certainly didn't work for the company since we weren't seeing any of them join after college.
At least in the case of an intern we had, she went to some other company. Which in fairness, was the better choice. In the conversation we were having, the manager even told her to go to any other company if she has the option because they will pay more. One of the best managers I've seen and he wasn't even my manager. Of course he left for another company shortly after.
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#43You're not alone. My partner has the same issue. They work in a field where performance can be judged somewhat objectively, but in which reputation still matters. They get not only impostor syndrome, but also the fear that other people will think their achievements are only due to DEI initiatives. Another issue is that senior minorities constantly get dragged into (useless, time-wasting, chore-like) committees that h…
Whenever my company has had conversations about DEI initiatives, I always come back to the same argument: "talk is cheap, we can talk all day long about how we are diverse. How about we shut up, put our money where our mouth is, and actually hire some folks from diverse backgrounds". DEI is something that is easy to talk about but actually kinda hard to implement. Part of the problem is the makeup of the industry in…
> actually hire some folks from diverse backgrounds
Because you’re trying to hire from a small pool of candidates (minority software developer or whatever) that EVERY OTHER tech company is trying to get in a desperate attempt to not look bad (because not having a sufficient number of minorities on staff is a sin).
It’s simply a question of numbers. There’s only so many minorities, and only a fraction of them are sufficiently talented, and everyone wants them. Your company may not be a big enough name to woo these folks. So it’s not necessarily the fault of your leadership to act on their principles.
Now there’s a whole OTHER can of worms associated with DEI, which is that everyone wants minority employees => there’s a lack of them => let’s lower our standards to widen the pool we have to choose from, and your company certainly could go down that route if you think they’re not doing enough.
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#44What you are describing sounds performative, which doesn't mean it's tokenism, window dressing, or a bad faith put-on show. It could all be with the best intentions. However it's hard to disagree with your take that DEI results should be self-evident. If a company feels a need to be self-congratulatory, they might be doing it wrong.
You put your finger on it right here: "I could understand publishing a quarterly report, but creating townhall meetings and parading..." Women and minorities in tech have their networks and know what's what. Accurate reporting of positive results is what makes a company welcoming to applicants.
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#45I've always found these telling when companies bandy around with "DEI great!"... All the while the C-levels are 'white male sausagefest' except for the DEI position, which is invariably a black woman. I like seeing real diversity at all levels of a company, and not the fake diversity pushed by DEI initiatives.
> All the while the C-levels are 'white male sausagefest'
Aren’t those the wurst? It’s like they could at least include vegetables, like aubergine or something.
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#46"...it would be beneficial if DEI initiatives were confidential and kept "hush hush" within a company." "...is nothing short of corporate virtue signaling." It might be most beneficial for individuals if it's kept-low key. It's best for the company to scream it to the world. Or at least that's what the leaders think right now. Personally, I think any medium to large company that talks about DEI and isn't addressing t…
I've seen quite a few people angrily push back on statements like 'pipeline problem' and I don't understand why. Obviously there's more to it than that, but it's also that (with hard numbers to back it up).
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#47DEI has become just another corporate metric for executives to game in order to optimize their bonuses. Same with ESG, NPS, and everything else before it - eventually the metric becomes the end unto itself and the original objective gets completely lost.
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#48> If I were a white man with the same experience, I might not even be here? I can understand how DEI initiatives might undermine your self-esteem and I'm sorry you are made to feel this way, but take solace in the fact that you have a job. Imagine how the white guy who was excluded from employment because of his skin color feels. That's who the real victim is here - the person who was racially discriminated against.…
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Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#49> If I were a white man with the same experience, I might not even be here? I can understand how DEI initiatives might undermine your self-esteem and I'm sorry you are made to feel this way, but take solace in the fact that you have a job. Imagine how the white guy who was excluded from employment because of his skin color feels. That's who the real victim is here - the person who was racially discriminated against.…
This take is radically wrong, and you're just reinforcing OP's insecurities. How do you know that OP has a job at the expense of a white person? How do you know that OP isn't in fact the best candidate for the job? You're making a whole lot of assumptions here that are bordering on outright racism
That assumption was suggested by the OP, not me. Thanks for suggesting I'm racist, but I'm basically immune to such thought stopping non-arguments at this point.
If disagreeing with making hiring decisions on the basis of skin colour is racist, then I suppose I'm racist.
Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company
#50> If I were a white man with the same experience, I might not even be here? I can understand how DEI initiatives might undermine your self-esteem and I'm sorry you are made to feel this way, but take solace in the fact that you have a job. Imagine how the white guy who was excluded from employment because of his skin color feels. That's who the real victim is here - the person who was racially discriminated against.…
This take is radically wrong, and you're just reinforcing OP's insecurities. How do you know that OP has a job at the expense of a white person? How do you know that OP isn't in fact the best candidate for the job? You're making a whole lot of assumptions here that are bordering on outright racism
“Race aware” hiring is inescapably racially discriminatory, and it’s not racist to point that out.