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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#1

Post by qzx_pierri »

As a black man, I have some issues with the DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) trend. As it exists within some (most?) companies, it seems to perpetuate imposter syndrome significantly. For example, I know I'm talented - I've got the projects, certs, and experience to back it up.

However, when I have to join a cheesy townhall once a month to discuss diversity hires, it makes me feel like I have no right to feel proud of any accomplishments I've made within the company.

"Why should I feel proud of my accomplishments, when the accomplishments were spoon-fed to me by the company because of my skin color? If I were a white man with the same experience, I might not even be here?"

In my opinion, it would be beneficial if DEI initiatives were confidential and kept "hush hush" within a company. Diversity is able to be seen. If you're actually a diverse company, then people will notice.

I could understand publishing a quarterly report, but creating townhall meetings and parading your black/brown employees around like show ponies is nothing short of corporate virtue signaling.

I realize this isn't the type of content posted to HN usually, and I realize it is in 'rant' territory, but I know a lot of managers in a lot of influential companies hangout here, so I figured posting this could spark some meaningful discussion.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#3

Post by stncls »

You're not alone. My partner has the same issue. They work in a field where performance can be judged somewhat objectively, but in which reputation still matters. They get not only impostor syndrome, but also the fear that other people will think their achievements are only due to DEI initiatives.

Another issue is that senior minorities constantly get dragged into (useless, time-wasting, chore-like) committees that have representation quotas.

> In my opinion, it would be beneficial if DEI initiatives were confidential and kept "hush hush" within a company.

That would be great: "do the right thing but don't brag about it". Unfortunately, "keep doing the wrong thing but pretend otherwise loudly" seems more common.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#4

Post by fatnoah »

I think you raise some good points, and I think there are ways to handle DEI hiring well, and ways not to do it well. IMHO, when it's done well, DEI hiring isn't about filling quotas or giving anyone an edge, but it's about making sure that everyone has an equal chance. I've been part of DEI hiring at a couple companies, and my role has been much more about answering questions and making sure that candidates start the process on a level footing with everyone else. All of the candidates are fully qualified for the roles -- I wouldn't be talking to them if they weren't.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#5

Post by tarotuser »

I've always found these telling when companies bandy around with "DEI great!"... All the while the C-levels are 'white male sausagefest' except for the DEI position, which is invariably a black woman.

I like seeing real diversity at all levels of a company, and not the fake diversity pushed by DEI initiatives.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#6

Post by PaulHoule »

It's a problem.

In our town people went past "Black Lives Matter" to a lot of cheap pandering to the effect that "Black people are awesome" and maybe all of them are right out of Wakanda Forever. It comes across as not based in reality, not really sincere, and not really attending to black people in the community.

I voted an Alumni Trustee ballot on the weekend and there were two black people on the ballot. One was a woman who'd done some of the biggest jobs in the biggest banks, the other was a man who'd leapfrogged from one "diversity officer" job to another. The first one was someone who proved black people could get it done, I'm afraid the second one may be perpetuating the problems of that community. You know who I voted for.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#7

Post by calvinmorrison »

For all the energy private companies do working towards DEI, think about how easily it could be transitioned into something you don't like. If the winds blow to a falangist anti-capitalism under not catholicism but protestant sects for example, all these little HR people will suddenly be touting the reasons not to hire women and get them back in the home.

HR departments should not be cultural enforcers, and while you may enjoy it now or think positively of DEI, it can flip around just as easily to something not very nice

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#8

Post by giantg2 »

"...it would be beneficial if DEI initiatives were confidential and kept "hush hush" within a company."

"...is nothing short of corporate virtue signaling."

It might be most beneficial for individuals if it's kept-low key. It's best for the company to scream it to the world. Or at least that's what the leaders think right now.

Personally, I think any medium to large company that talks about DEI and isn't addressing the supply side issues are just just marketing. Without addressing that, it's just companies trying to outbid each other, and not using money but using virtue signaling. They should be putting their money where their mouth is and sponsoring scholarships/internships/apprenticeships. Instead of asking you talk at town halls, maybe they should be asking you to talk at high schools so the students can ask questions about your career journey. But hey, I'm just a dev so what do I know that these highly intelligent and highly trained CEOs/HR don't...

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#9

Post by dillutedfixer »

Thank you for sharing this. I feel the exact same way. Work at a state university. Found out at a big town hall style meeting that I was hired during a "diversity cluster hire." I know I am talented but I was sitting there questioning myself. I am hispanic. Everyone speaking about the cluster hire was white. I appreciate the overall push towards awareness of this issue but I agree this felt like we were being paraded around. I skipped the "DEI Luncheon."

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#10

Post by sokoloff »

fatnoah wrote: post #4

I think you raise some good points, and I think there are ways to handle DEI hiring well, and ways not to do it well. IMHO, when it's done well, DEI hiring isn't about filling quotas or giving anyone an edge, but it's about making sure that everyone has an equal chance. I've been part of DEI hiring at a couple companies, and my role has been much more about answering questions and making sure that candidates start th…

> when it's done well,...it's about making sure that everyone has an equal chance

If that's the measure, then I think it's not done well in a lot of places (possibly most). Some places are biased one way; other places biased the other way; relatively few are dead-centered.

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