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As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

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Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#741

Post by nprateem »

ddalex wrote: post #727
ricardobeat wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your retort is phrased poorly, but I don’t understand the downvotes here - the footage from this episode was made by fighter jets who were dispatched to investigate a radar signal , and the pilot said they had visual contact. That’s three distinct records and/or a whole lot of marines fucking with us.

I mean there is no denial that SOMETHING was out there. The debunking refers to the performance of the target which is being shown to be safely within the capabilities of contemporary human technology and not requiring "aliens" or "unknown technology" to achieve.

This is the guy who headed up the AATIP (UAP) task force for the Pentagon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBtMbBPzqHY

He lists some pretty amazing capabilities around 2:10.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#742

Post by simonh »

Loquebantur wrote: post #737
simonh wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t have to be lying, just mistaken, like the pilots on some if the video we do have. Sometimes people make mistakes, it happens.

The idea of multiple military pilots, radar operators, analysts, etc. being mistaken simultaneously in the same way over the course of extended periods of time on multiple occasions is rather concerning. Maybe they should build in a third seat on those planes and staff it with some intellectually adequate people from hacker news? The point isn't pilots and other professionals being perfect, it is about the probabilit…

Sure, the fact that we have pilots on recordings clearly and obviously misreading instrument data also shown in the same recordings is concerning, but that's where we are. I don't understand how this can be such a huge surprise though.

Humans make mistakes, we have multiple layers of checks and controls for the management of complex systems like planes because of this. It's why airliners have co-pilots, it's why we like to have multiple confirmations from different systems before making life or death critical decisions. Yet still friendly fire incidents happen, mid-air collisions happen. Accidents like the shooting down of flight 655 by the USS Vincennes happen, in which a whole bridge crew and leadership with access to all the information misinterpreted it at multiple levels of review. Similar full system failures by multiple personnel simultaneously have lead to warship collisions.

It boggles my mind that somehow knowing all of this about the ever present potential for human error, even by highly trained competent people, goes out of the window when it comes to potential "UFO" sightings. All of a suddens military pilots and sensor operators are perfect paragons that never make mistakes and should never be questioned.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#743

Post by wpietri »

anon7725 wrote: post #685
wpietri wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But the existence of aliens would in no way contradict any physical laws or scientific consensus. The existence of aliens, sure. But the presence of aliens on Earth pretty much does. There's no reason to think FTL travel is possible, and it's economically unreasonable to think some species is going to invest in generation ships to cross the great interstellar gulfs just so that they can fuck around with pilots and a…

> There's no reason to think FTL travel is possible This seems like fairly closed thinking. We’ve observed strange behavior at the quantum level. We have plausible theories of wormholes and multiverses. It’s conceivable that some civilization has assembled FTL travel from these and other natural phenomena yet unknown. > it's economically unreasonable to think some species is going to invest in generation ships We’re…

This is exactly how the spiritualists sounded in their day. They had facially plausible theories of the phenomena they claimed to observe with no actual evidence described in ways that fit in with the gaps in understanding of the moment.

I too consume a lot of science fiction, but it's important to remember that it's just writers making shit up. Perhaps FTL is possible. Perhaps angel are real. Both are things people want to believe in, and both have facially plausible literary explanations, but they have equally good scientific evidence at the moment.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#744

Post by wpietri »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #584
wpietri wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that doesn't explain why they got better at the exact rate our technology did. It's much easier to blame it on gods or angels or devils or whatever. Which is basically what "aliens" means when they're treated as having extra-magic technology.

https://xkcd.com/2572/

Yes, exactly that!

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#745

Post by likeabbas »

belter wrote: post #475
likeabbas wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a recent paper by Ukrainian astronomers about UAP caught by their two major telescopes going Mach 15+ and doing an instantaneous u turn https://arxiv.org/abs/2211.17085 Most likely other astronomers have picked up events like this but discarded the data since it wasn’t matching what they were looking for, or the stigma pressured them to ignore it.

Discredited already: https://thedebrief.org/controversial-ukrainian-uap-study-sho...

That article is attempting to discredit the first paper the scientists put out by saying it’s most likely artillery from fighting.

The link I posted is the follow up paper by the same scientists rebuking the discredit. It contains more evidence from a longer timeline (dating back to 2018) and this new paper includes photos they captured of the flight path of the objects.

This paper still needs to be peer reviewed but it’s very interesting nonetheless

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#746

Post by BrandoElFollito »

yokoprime wrote: post #720
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #713

To me this sounds like if I was saying "as an owner of a bank account, I witnessed decisions of the French budget that I do not understand. It must be secret money". He is a pilot, and saw stuff. Since there are not always data driven evidence (we just do not know, it could have been this or that) it is easier to say UFO. Maybe this is incompetence of the ones who monitor the sky, and they want to hide it. Maybe we c…

What is OVNI? Is this French for UFO?

Sorry, yes. Edited to UFO.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#747

Post by willis936 »

namaria wrote: post #643
willis936 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about all of that, but I know a lot of people are paid to count a lot of beans. There are lots of beans saved from diagnostics, especially where insurance is involved.

Have you heard of black boxes? I don't think dashboard cams are a limiting factor for airplanes here...

Indeed I have. It's pretty wild that modern FDRs don't include video. There isn't a good justification other than "it's too much effort to make any change", which is a sign of a dangerous system.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#748

Post by likeabbas »

tstrimple wrote: post #519
likeabbas wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lue Elizondo did far more than run AATIP. His primary job at the DoD was to prevent leaks from the Special Access Programs that contained the classified technology that would be working on what you claim UFOs are. I can link you to his IG complaint where it contains his performance report that outlined his official duties at the DoD if you'd like. Edit: here it is https://imgur.com/a/y0X1eoo His full IG report which…

If his job was to prevent leaks from the Special Access Programs, wouldn't he absolutely say that these "objects" weren't classified tech? Like, it's literally his job to say it's not us!

He does say exactly that this is not classified US tech. And if you read the DNI paper on UAP, they say that it’s not classified tech as well.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#749

Post by wpietri »

ostenning wrote: post #583
wpietri wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that doesn't explain why they got better at the exact rate our technology did. It's much easier to blame it on gods or angels or devils or whatever. Which is basically what "aliens" means when they're treated as having extra-magic technology.

Im not really sure what your point is, your measuring Aliens in relation to Humans and our understanding of the universe. If Aliens did get to Earth most theories would imply that they have broken physical laws that we haven’t, so for all intents and purposes, they do have extra-magic technology. Maybe they also have threat models and can adapt to our rate of change? I don’t know, but thinking that we are the only pa…

Sure, now substitute "angels" for "Aliens" and you could ring doorbells on Sunday.

Have all the fantasies you like, of course. But don't please don't mistake it for a serious argument about what we are compelled to believe from evidence.

What we have is a long history of humans taking liminal phenomena and using it to justify believe in quasi-anthropomorphic entities that are just out of sight. Fairies, angels, demons, ghosts, aliens, etc. The names change, the "evidence" changes, but the belief is a constant. But after literal centuries, somehow the evidence always melts away, and the angels/aliens always stay conveniently unproven but still somehow believed in despite the ever-expanding range of what we can now observe and prove.

If you were a godbotherer, the theological term for what you're doing is "god of the gaps". But that's both bad theology and bad science.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#750

Post by likeabbas »

scotty79 wrote: post #710
likeabbas wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honesty have no clue what you're trying to say with your statement from scientists. Science is the way forward with our understanding of phenomenon. Scientists are not so easily fooled, and there are several scientists with pedigrees far higher than you or any magician you'd hire that are studying this subject. Dr. Gary Nolan of Stanford, Dr. Avi Loeb of Harvard, Dr. Eric Davis a theoretical physicist. IMO you are…

I'm basically saying this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml There's a history of scientists being fooled by supernatural claims. There are even some Nobel laureates that after success in science as they get older they go straight to cookooland. Heck, even Newton who achieved much in his youth when he got older he went completely bananas. Being a scientist doesn't guard you against getting f…

There’s also a history of humans not being able to accept something radically different when being presented evidence of it. In this case, that appears to be happening to you.

Please, just stay out of this conversation. Let the real scientists like Gary Nolan and Avi Loeb continue to investigate this subject as they please. Whatever this phenomenon ends up being, your opinions are not going to help us find that out.

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