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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#751

Post by onethought »

bsuvc wrote: post #439
onethought wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done this for over ten years. It’s not. It’s actually way easier than people think.

Over 20 years of seeing this attempted by large companies and I have have never seen it work out well for them. I'm not saying there aren't some talented developers working for cheap, but most of the time you get what you pay for.

Yes, so if you pay in the top 90% in a country you get top 90% of the talent.

The problem with “off shoring” is that’s how it is treated.

Remote work, where people become part of your team and work with everyone else is quite different and avoids the failure cases you have likely seen.

It’s hardly controversial to say that a huge chunk of Silicon Valley talent is from migrants. So clearly the training overseas is up to scratch.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#752

Post by op00to »

Gigachad wrote: post #537
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, no! Maybe some people get their social life from work but many don't. I have 1 friend I've made during my entire career that stayed with me after the job ended. The others I've lived with, or went to school with, or met following other interests. If you just mean socialising with colleagues, sure, I do that. But they aren't my good friends.

We are dismantling every place people form new friendships and then wonder why young people are becoming more lonely.

We’re dismantling bars? We’re dismantling gyms? We’re dismantling cafes? Meetups? Singles events? Speed dating? Tinder?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#753

Post by op00to »

herghost wrote: post #416
nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I'm happily married, children, dog, several distinct groups of friends, great job at a great company, lovely house in a nice village, etc, etc, etc. I worked from home for about 4 years as a freelancer and found it incredibly isolating (but lucrative, so endured it) but finally had enough and get a permanent job back in an office. This was 5 weeks before what would be the first of sever…

You have to change, not the world.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#754

Post by op00to »

krabizzwainch wrote: post #529
herghost wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I'm happily married, children, dog, several distinct groups of friends, great job at a great company, lovely house in a nice village, etc, etc, etc. I worked from home for about 4 years as a freelancer and found it incredibly isolating (but lucrative, so endured it) but finally had enough and get a permanent job back in an office. This was 5 weeks before what would be the first of sever…

I started a new job during the pandemic (well, 2...). What sucks for me is that my boss has been like "Yeah, you can go back to the office." But both him and my direct coworker have said that they will never go back to the office. Pretty sure I will never physically meet them before I inevitably try to find some other job. And what is more isolating than being home alone? Well, working completely alone in an office b…

You could … ask your boss for an in person 1:1. I did. My boss lives halfway across the country. We made it work. I am a long time remote worker (12+ years)

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#755

Post by op00to »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #732
Gigachad wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to go back to the office. All my friends and coworkers who have tried it haven’t gone back to remote work. People weren’t meant to sit alone all day.

Different folks, different strokes. I started working remote about 3 years before Covid and won't go back to the office.

My company no longer has any offices. We got rid of them, saved us some layoffs apparently.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#756

Post by op00to »

ravenstine wrote: post #547
nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

> People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. Yeah... good luck with that. Not to say that people don't make friends outside work, but there are many variables involved with that. But just use Meetup.com, right? Sure, if you want to spend a few hours with people of retirement age, not if there's anything wrong with that. Not having friends is j…

I make friends with parents of my kids classmates, neighbors, people of similar interests that I run into at the cafe. I started a new job and I’m not bummed that I don’t have any “friends” there yet.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#757

Post by Adraghast »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #701
Adraghast wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not, but I do know what's on my table: a career doing things I find reasonably stimulating that provides me more material comfort than I know what to do with. I am doubtful these hallway conversations I keep hearing about could provide me anything else that I would want, and I'm definitely not willing to give up my freedom and flexibility just to find out.

It's not really yours to give up, is my point. You're not looking at this from the employer's perspective, and it's making it hard for you to understand that what you want is only part of the equation.

It’s not some solvable, technocratic equation, it’s a conflict between labor and management. I don’t look at it from my employers’ perspectives because I don’t care about their outcomes.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#758

Post by Awelton »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

As a lifetime introvert that doesn't really care for human interaction I have never really thought about this perspective before. I have worked remote for years and commuting all the way to another building just to do the same thing I was already doing at home would feel like a pointless hoop to jump through at this point. I wonder how many people demanding that everyone return to the office are just lonely?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#759

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

giantg2 wrote: post #734
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, a) we're not talking about how people decide what to build, as that has nothing to do with working remotely, b) managers aren't involved in determining either what to build or how well the plan to build something was executed, and c) the people who do decide those things have meetings which are irrelevant when talking about working remotely or in person. Am I understanding you correctly?

I've implied that I'm done with this conversation as it seems you're trolling.

Not trolling, I just know in difficult conversations it’s sometimes helpful to restate what the other person is saying to try and figure out the disconnect.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#760

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

Adraghast wrote: post #757
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really yours to give up, is my point. You're not looking at this from the employer's perspective, and it's making it hard for you to understand that what you want is only part of the equation.

It’s not some solvable, technocratic equation, it’s a conflict between labor and management. I don’t look at it from my employers’ perspectives because I don’t care about their outcomes.

Then why should they care about your outcomes?

You’ve got to do better if you expect to retain employment long term, and certainly if you expect to retain the privilege of working remotely.

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