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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#741

Post by quickthrower2 »

junofan wrote: post #326
0xB31B1B wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peer group: CEOs, VP eng, CTO, directors at seed-series B companies where leadership team is Bay Area based. I think you’re seeing this wrong. Every other locale is a discount to SFBA/NYC. Many companies can and should pay top of market in cheaper locales. That is the winning remote playbook. Maybe the locale is Canada, maybe the locale is Argentina, maybe it’s Portugal. Pick your choice, they’re all 1/2 cost or less…

Yep, people are starting to look elsewhere.

They always have been.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#742

Post by hgsgm »

dsugarman wrote: post #546
lolinder wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're the most honest pro-office person here. Everyone else is making justifications that dance around this idea that they need the office for the human connection. What you describe is very real and I understand that it hurts. I think what's happening is that we're in the shaking out phase where companies are deciding whether they'll be remote/hybrid/office. Each company will make that decision based on the…

Put yourself in the executives shoes for a second, they're not stupid people, they know how large the risk of blowback is and how many employees they might disenfranchise or lose. They're that confident that remote work is a bigger threat to their long-term performance and they don't want to get lapped by the companies with an in-office culture

Execs know that they have no idea how to measure performance so they can't risk someone taking a paycheck and doing no work, because they can't detect that.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#743

Post by hgsgm »

monksy wrote: post #503
lolinder wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're the most honest pro-office person here. Everyone else is making justifications that dance around this idea that they need the office for the human connection. What you describe is very real and I understand that it hurts. I think what's happening is that we're in the shaking out phase where companies are deciding whether they'll be remote/hybrid/office. Each company will make that decision based on the…

I agree with your statement about him being the most honest person here. The most I can give him credit for is that you're already out and it keeps you from going back to your house. Everytime I read that "humans are social creatures" it's a dog whistle for "i want to see people miserable and pressured to do it"

He doesn't want you back in the office. He wants people like him back in the office.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#744

Post by hgsgm »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #437
pxue wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…

Ummm, no! Maybe some people get their social life from work but many don't. I have 1 friend I've made during my entire career that stayed with me after the job ended. The others I've lived with, or went to school with, or met following other interests. If you just mean socialising with colleagues, sure, I do that. But they aren't my good friends.

> The others I've lived with

Sure, you get a few shots at that.

> or went to school with

That's work for young people, who are better at making friends.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#745

Post by hgsgm »

calsy wrote: post #632
mettamage wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital nomad here. I like being one. For me making friends, the best places are: Tinder (it took a lot of effort) and just giving compliments to people on the street (it took some effort to learn). Regarding complimenting people on the street and potentially turning it into a conversation, it takes some practice. 10 years ago when I did some solo traveling (before uni even) for the first time, I had the choice to st…

What bizarro world is this?

It's the regular world, for a person who is naturally adventurous and sociable.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#746

Post by quickthrower2 »

Cub3 wrote: post #450

I've worked remote for several years as both a senior engineer and team leader, these are the problems with remote work I haven't yet found good solutions for: 1. I don't know how my employees are doing; many times in my career I've had to tell programmers to "go for a walk" or "time to go home" when they get stuck on a frustrating task or fall in to a flow state far past leaving time. Solutions I've found to this pu…

For 1 why not let them take off extra time the next day? No point interrupting a good flow state!

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#747

Post by 9530jh9054ven »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #488
pxue wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…

> Making friends as an adult is hard. Pick a social hobby. Pick up sports, hiking / running / reading / trivia / sports groups. Take a class. Take up a cause - volunteer your time at the local farm, shelter, political office.. Kids don't go to school with the goal of making friends. The friends are a byproduct.

So what happens when you have no interests, no hobbies, no cause? And for those that do, but lack the time or financial resources to persue them? What then?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#748

Post by csomar »

dsugarman wrote: post #546
lolinder wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're the most honest pro-office person here. Everyone else is making justifications that dance around this idea that they need the office for the human connection. What you describe is very real and I understand that it hurts. I think what's happening is that we're in the shaking out phase where companies are deciding whether they'll be remote/hybrid/office. Each company will make that decision based on the…

Put yourself in the executives shoes for a second, they're not stupid people, they know how large the risk of blowback is and how many employees they might disenfranchise or lose. They're that confident that remote work is a bigger threat to their long-term performance and they don't want to get lapped by the companies with an in-office culture

You are making the dangerous assumption that these people know what they are doing. Time and again, winners and losers emerge of this and many of the top level executives turns out to be dead wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#749

Post by quickthrower2 »

treis wrote: post #69
hikingsimulator wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caring about the raw amount of time people put into their jobs sounds like a middle management thing to do -- rewarding showing up and putting in hours like it was PR. If the results are there, and in accordance with the employment contract, time shouldn't matter.

Except that they also take advantage of the flexibility of agile. If a story is pointed for 2 days and it takes 3 it's better to take that as a missed estimate than a developer not producing as much as they should. Hammering them because they let a deadline slip leads to all sorts of bad things. But, again, even as a fellow team member I can't tell if they worked for 2 days and fucked off for one or it legitimately j…

This is an interesting problem. The counter problem is how do we avoid companies making too much profit? Because that is free money the company got lazily without the shareholders working extra hours.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#750

Post by op00to »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

From those of us with kids, many just want to do our jobs and get a paycheck. Work lets us live, we do not live to work. We are not looking for some third place or a dating situation.

Go to a climbing gym or get a dog or something if you want to meet people.

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