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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#481

Post by asdadsdad »

camgunz wrote: post #453
asdadsdad wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is much more than a one person's problem, but it's a general issue that many older people with well-established lives don't sympathize with unfortunately. As much as others can deny, work is source of most people's friendships, relationships, mentorships, and other social interactions. There's hardly a substitute for that outside.

It's a symptom of societies that require you to work way too much and get everything (status, health care, socialization) from your job.

Would you like college to be remote too? School? Let's all wake up in our pijamas, hop on a zoom and live most of our lives like that?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#482

Post by tacotacotaco »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

“I was working all day.” Are you getting paid to work 16 hour days? If not then stop giving your employer free work. You’re devaluing your skill.

Go for a walk outside. Say hello to a stranger.

Volunteer at the library e.g. helping illiterate adults learn to read, or helping English as a second language speakers by chatting with them.

Go to a game store. They usually have open board/card/rpg games you can join. Some bars also have this.

Look online for activity groups in your area e.g. a photography group that walks around the city together. A gardening group. A sewing group. A painting group. Some of these might be advertised at your local library. Some might even meet there. Can’t find one your interested in? Make your own.

Look at public events in your city. Some of these are run by non-profits that would love if you volunteered to assist. Be careful about what you volunteer for though. Since you are looking for human interactions do not offer to help with their website, for example, since that is solitary work. These events need plenty of on-hand help.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#483

Post by alexfoo »

arcturus17 wrote: post #400
alexfoo wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the sake of balance I'd just like to say that I agree with the GP on this. I miss my ~30 minute commute (by bike) from my old job. It provided good delineation between home and work, and 1h of good cardio a day meant I didn't need to do any of that at the gym. I didn't have a need for that time to myself to choose what to do because I liked that choice being taken away for these relatively short periods and me be…

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I work remotely, but I walk to an office. I also like to have a separation of work and home. Also I'm very physically active, I do crossfit 4x a week right next to my house. I find it easier to commit by not being tied to any other location other than my home.

Indeed.

I definitely go through phases where I need a lot more structure in order to make things happen. Having an office just the right distance away to go to was a good target. I could either run or cycle to/from it. A public transport option was easily available (this is London, so public transport is nigh on amazing) but I was able to resist that lazy option.

I guess what I'm saying is that the freedom of working from home is just too much freedom for me. I'm way more productive and my employer gets way more of my time (not that they demand any extra time from me) but I'm lacking the initial impetus to get out of the house to do my own stuff.

Even something as simple as walking my kid to school (they're old enough now to make their own way) meant that I was out of the house and, on days without any early morning meetings, I'd walk on to the local pool to do a ~1h swim, or I'd run a long route home. Now it's just too easy to be holed up indoors and think "ah, I'll go for a swim/run/ride a bit later" and never do.

I know the motivation/planning/execution will come back eventually. I've successfully trained for various endurance events in the past but I guess my brain hasn't caught up with all of the changes that the pandemic has had influence on, including my working setup.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#484

Post by bilvar »

treis wrote: post #230
hikingsimulator wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this reads as wanting to crunch developers out of more value than one is paying them.

Expecting people to pay attention during meetings and not be a ghost during a day is crunching developers? Give me a break. We're all highly paid professionals. It's not unreasonable to be expected to act like it.

I swear the entitlement in this industry is off charts.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#485

Post by scruple »

listenallyall wrote: post #168
snozolli wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every element you mention as being part of an in-office experience has been completely absent from my career. Never made a connection that proved valuable later on. Never received any mentorship or even any guidance, I was always simply given a task and expected to complete it. Company culture doesn't even feel like a real thing outside of HR blurbs. Spontaneous collaboration was outweighed by interruptions and meddl…

> Never made a connection that proved valuable later on. Sorry buddy but that's on you. You make valuable connections by being generous and helpful to others. Then at some point down the road when they need to hire someone, they remember, hey 'snozolli' was a great coworker, let me see if they're available.

I've used my network for the last decade+ of work. I cofounded a startup because I developed a relationship with my cofounder in the break room at a former employer. We were in different orgs, we'd have never had the chance to develop our relationship in a Zoom-first world. And I say this as someone who's been part time remote since 2014, full time since 2016, and started freelancing remotely back in 2010. I love remote work but, IMO, there's a huge discrepancy between what can happen in-person vs. Zoom.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#486

Post by lolinder »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

I think you're the most honest pro-office person here. Everyone else is making justifications that dance around this idea that they need the office for the human connection. What you describe is very real and I understand that it hurts.

I think what's happening is that we're in the shaking out phase where companies are deciding whether they'll be remote/hybrid/office. Each company will make that decision based on the preferences of the people with the most influence, and because opinions vary so widely there will be lots of diversity in outcomes.

And that's a really good thing. It's unfair that those of us who can't stand being in an office were made to go into the office to satisfy the social needs of other people who aren't getting enough socialization in their personal life. But it's also not right for people like you to feel like you have no choice but to be isolated.

What we need is for people to not feel trapped in a job that has the wrong balance of remote and in-person. If you are the only one of your coworkers who feels the way that you do, maybe the answer is to find a company where the majority of employees share your desire for in-person work. I know that sounds overwhelming right now, but once you've made the leap once you won't be stuck in the wrong alignment again.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#487

Post by MrScruff »

roncesvalles wrote: post #380
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

Same and same. Also, I hate how these days it's somehow shameful to even think about making friends at the workplace, that somehow work friends are work friends and can never be your "real friends". Looking at my parents' generation, most of their current friendships are people they met at work. In fact my parents met each other at work. We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild tha…

Yeah, some of the people I work with I’ve known for 20 years! For me it’s weird to imagine spending a large chunk of your life with these people and not forming some sort of personal connection.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#488

Post by givemeethekeys »

pxue wrote: post #381
nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…

> Making friends as an adult is hard.

Pick a social hobby. Pick up sports, hiking / running / reading / trivia / sports groups.

Take a class.

Take up a cause - volunteer your time at the local farm, shelter, political office..

Kids don't go to school with the goal of making friends. The friends are a byproduct.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#489

Post by roncesvalles »

virtual_void wrote: post #480
roncesvalles wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the attitude that I'm protesting against. I don't agree that you can make even close to the same depth of friendship with someone who you see 2 hours a week, vs someone you see 8 hours a day 5 days a week for months. Work or school are really the only places where you can spend that much time with someone. Then again, part of the problem is that people have forgotten what real friendships are like. "F…

You’re assuming your feelings about how other people make meaningful relationships are universal. It can be true for you yet untrue for others. It seems a bit much to state it as fact.

Establishing a common goalpost is critical to even discussing this topic. I agree that "meaningful" is personal and subjective, but it's also incorrect to take the lowest common denominator definition of friendship as the valid one.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#490

Post by Adraghast »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #353
giantg2 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for managers. But really it should be about delivering completed projects, especially for technical folks.

Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally. Remote work will continue to reduce over the next couple of years. If you don’t have a real reason for being at home during the work day, expect to be back in the office soon.

Thanks for the tip, but I was doing good work remotely ten years before covid and will continue to do so ten years after.
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