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As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

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Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#421

In grad school in astronomy, there was a fellow grad student who was extremely excited after a night's observations that he'd discovered something remarkable -- it was a long hoped for distant galaxy that appeared in his images that night, and had all the right spectral signatures because it appeared in different filters, different exposures, and you could see it there in the image files, raw. Turned out, it was nois…

Frankly, I think the reality is even less interesting than that. US military aviators are trained to be proficient systems operators, but typically (and, I want to stress, very reasonably) have little or no education in EM/EO theory, and don't always understand the assumptions that engineers baked into these systems to optimize them for their primary use cases (which, in the case of targeting pods, is identification…

Anecdotal obviously but I’m in the industry (I’m assuming you are as well from the nature of your comment) and I work with many current and former pilots and I think this characterization is a little unfair. Many military pilots do come from engineering backgrounds since a degree is generally a requirement for pilot training, and an engineering degree is often viewed as a good qualifier for becoming a pilot. Military pilot training is also highly technical in nature and involves rigorous classroom learning on the underlying physics and systems of tactical aircraft. But aside from this, my experience is that technically competent (not necessarily a given) pilots can have a better practical understanding of these sensor systems than the engineers that designed them because the designers very rarely get a comprehensive picture about what it’s actually like to use them in combat scenarios, simulated or otherwise. The problem in my mind with simply writing off the TICTAC and GIMBLE incidents as a bad reading of noise on the scope is that, from multiple pilot testimonies, dozens of tracks were observed via radar, ir/eo, and visually (like just the eyeballs). I’m not saying that these are craft that are violating the known laws of physics, I personally have other theories, but I’m not sure it’s just noisy sensors either.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be so adamant about this if the quality of the individuals telling us the government has significant classified data that shows the ET hypothesis best fits what the pilots are seeing. You are the one being unreasonable and not listening to these individuals. Pilots are not the only ones seeing this. Ukrainian astronomers have data from their telescopes in two different cities referencing the same objects…

> quality of the individuals This is just appeal to authority. And wrong authority at that. When you are debunking a supernatural claim you don't ask a scientist to do it (let alone a general). Because scientists are honest thus easily mislead because they assume honesty. You should ask a magician because they know myriad of ways how it could be done to fool you. As for the patent ... Do you know how many versions of…

I honesty have no clue what you're trying to say with your statement from scientists. Science is the way forward with our understanding of phenomenon. Scientists are not so easily fooled, and there are several scientists with pedigrees far higher than you or any magician you'd hire that are studying this subject. Dr. Gary Nolan of Stanford, Dr. Avi Loeb of Harvard, Dr. Eric Davis a theoretical physicist. IMO you are simply stuck in the wrong mindset if you don't think this is a serious subject.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical and so lean pragmatic on the issue. Fighter pilots at risk? If the military believed that they would already be fully engaged in solving the problem. In which case there is little for me or any other civilian to do. And you say fighter pilots at risk but, and this will sound callous, an actual incident that caused a loss of aircraft would be more compelling. It does away with the may be at risk proposit…

Like the other commenter said, there’s a huge stigma amongst military officials to not report these events because the stigma is a career ended. That’s why the government added legislation mandating the DoD create a channel for these events to be reported. Diving a little deeper, if the military suspected these aircraft were foreign adversary then this would be big news. But they don’t. They believe it’s something el…

Same in astronomy and cosmology. Your career will be over if you do not hold a very specific view, or at least hold it publicly.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#424
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to admit, given that resources are finite, the dismissive attitude is warranted. Why is it that alien spaceships (let's call them what people actually think is being discussed, and not just any random flying thing that we don't know what it is) only show up on equipment when you can barely tell what you're looking at, and never clearly and unambiguously from multiple places?

I look at it from the opposite perspective. If you were a foreign power running things in military ranges that gave odd sensor readings (say, balloons with radar characterization gear), wouldn't it be convenient if your adversary dismissed reports as fanciful? The fact is that any contact in a military range, where militarily valuable radar and signal emissions abound, is a threat to national security. Gear is going…

You're talking about a different interpretation of the word "UFO" than I used above. Ever since those reports came out some years ago of pilots reporting UFOs, the implication has been very strong that "UFO" doesn't just mean "here's something that showed up on the sensors that we don't know what it is".

Yes, the military should investigate all reports of UFOs in the strict sense to see if they've found some new piece of equipment from a foreign nation. I assume they've done that before releasing the footage to the public after figuring out what it is they actually detected.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#425
post #364
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total BS. What you described would've been very noticeable. Especially "fading" of visually slow moving satellite.

No, That's not how it works. From the perspective of an observer on the ground, a satellite can seem to suddenly disappear as it passes into the Earth’s shadow. It's entirely possible that you saw two different satellites. https://www.space.com/6870-spot-satellites.html

>"satellite can seem to suddenly disappear"

And another one conveniently appears at the same point and same time just going 90 degrees different course? Sure.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it could be a "field" that might as well be described as magic. But where's the craft's interaction with the atmosphere? Normally an object traveling thousands of miles an hour hits a fair amount of atmosphere. An object traveling fast enough actually turns atmospheric gases into a plasma. Plasma is not only hot but will reflect radio waves. Now you need to invent a second magic technology that explains the lack…

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" Arthur C. Clarke To preface this, I agree with you, per our current scientific understanding, this isn't possible. That being said, we would be fools to look at our level of technology and think we could grasp everything in the universe. I'm not saying what we saw in the video is real. I just think dismissing something because it doesn't fit our u…

> Who knows, I think being skeptical, but approaching it with an open mind is the best way to go about it.

The problem with fantastical explanations for phenomena is they are not testable or falsifiable. You also need to keep adding new fantastical explanations whenever an observation runs into the bounds of the last fantastical explanation. Once you invite in magic you need more magic to explain the other magic. It's asinine and intellectually bankrupt.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#427
post #246

I don't get it. In recent years a number of people who I know and I view to be very intelligent have started talk to me about how they believe reports of aliens trolling US fighter pilots and that the US government is covering this up. And I'm aware that "trolling" might be viewed as an uncharitable way of looking at it, but I actually think that's the most accurate description of what's being reported in these sight…

I'm one of the people that believes we're being visited and that the government knows and is covering it up.

There are rational explanations I can come up with for why the government would want to cover it up. You do not want the public to panic, nor do you want the public to know that we cannot control access to our own airspace. There's also an element of this where you want to study a potential enemy without them being aware that you are aware of their presence. In other words I think it's possible that those who made this decision did not want to induce a change in their behavior by it becoming clear that we are aware that they are here. I think you also do not want your geopolitical competitors to be aware of their existence, because that starts a potential arms race in which competing nations reverse engineer their technology before we have successfully done so.

Some of these justifications fade with time. For instance, I think the chance of public panic decreases as people become less religious + more people become aware and acclimate to the possibility that we are not alone thanks to the introduction of aliens in our pop-culture / media like TV shows and books.

As for why the aliens do not explicitly and unambiguously inform us of their presence, my thinking is along the lines of this comment further up in the thread

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34665738&p=2#34667035

> It makes sense to slow roll UAP/ET phenomena anyway, as they probably understand that beings of an emerging intelligence tend to align to whatever they percieve as powerful (just as other animals become dependent on human garbage dumps) and adapt to the dependency instead of evolving and developing themselves freely according to their natures.

> The dependency arrests their development, and ethically, who wants to be around just another bunch of pets? I could see there being some distinction between domestication and actualization, where the former stunts an evolution and the latter develops and accelerates it. The more interesting question around UAPs for me is under what conditions would we elevate a species on earth to participate as peers in our own civilizations, and what would the analogous criteria be for us to level up in the same way.

There may be a philosophy that we need to develop naturally in order to not arrest our development technologically and culturally. I strongly believe that mankind has to experience the consequences of our actions in order for us to have lasting change on our belief systems, ethical views, and behavior. I believe that, hypothetically, them allowing an event like WW2 to occur or even allowing the use of nuclear weapons at the end of the war in a context that wasn't an existential threat to the survival of the species serves to decrease existential risk in the future. I think even with something like climate change which they could presumably help us to avert, they do not do so because mankind likely needs to experience the consequences of not caring about the natural world before we collectively come to our senses.

I would otherwise think that they are studying us scientifically and simply do not want to contaminate the experiment, but their apparent lack of care about being observed by military fighter craft makes me think that this isn't the case.

One of the more believable encounters (due to the sheer number of witnesses + none ever changing their story) I've read about involves an alleged landing near a school in South Africa in 1984, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_School_UFO_incident. A few of the children claim that the aliens in this encounter communicated with them telepathetically, sending them mental images of environmental disaster and climate collapse. The whole thing has the air of some unintended and unauthorized encounter.

The intergalactic troll thing sounds ridiculous, but everything I've typed sounds ridiculous. Trolling does seem to be supported by the evidence though. I don't remember which video it was, but one of the fighter pilots from one of the Pentagon confirmed videos indicated that after encountering one of the craft, it shot off to the destination that the pilots were headed which was something like 100 miles away in 60 seconds iirc. Our alien visitors seem to have a sense of humor, which I suppose all things considered is better than them not having one.

I don't think you should have nightmares about any of this. Even though I believe that we are being observed, it is not proven and even if it were, we can only wildly speculate what their intentions are. I take solace in the fact that they have likely been here for a very long time and our development has been unimpeded. Similarly, I suspect that to develop the technology that they have you require a stable society for a long period of time. You don't get stability if you are a particularly warlike and malevolent people. It seems likely too that the trajectory of intelligent civilization is to grow more moral and caring over time with less violence. It seems to be the trajectory mankind imo.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#428

There's a real problem with people being close-minded towards anything that seems fantastical. This includes scientists and other professionals who ought to know better. Obviously it's unscientific to jump to conclusions and assume that anything that doesn't make sense must be aliens or magic or whatever but at the same time, it's also unscientific to ignore physical observations just because they seem like something…

> There's a real problem with people being close-minded towards anything that seems fantastical. This includes scientists and other professionals who ought to know better.

The thing is, in science, as Sagan so succinctly put it- Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence.

One landing in a public area, now that would be evidence hard to ignore.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can via primary radar, but the default displays secondary radar information (the transponder interrogation) as it tends to be significantly more precise. Surveillance radar has very coarse altitude resolution.

Isn't it a given that if a plane is requesting a read that they want to check their measurement against a different one, though?

ATC probably thought they were giving a different measurement. Especially in older planes, systems aren't particularly well integrated, and most of the time you ask them what they're seeing because you can't check your own Mode C altitude in the cockpit and want to compare it to your barometric altimeter (and yes, they generally do use the same static source, but it isn't atypical for them to read differently).

Thinking about it more, I've never tried asking ATC for an altitude check specifically from primary radar. It may well be that the system isn't set up for it, even if it's technically computable to some degree. When I'm talking coarse, I mean an altitude spread at range that may be measured in miles.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can via primary radar, but the default displays secondary radar information (the transponder interrogation) as it tends to be significantly more precise. Surveillance radar has very coarse altitude resolution.

Isn't it a given that if a plane is requesting a read that they want to check their measurement against a different one, though?

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