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How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

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Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#51

Post by voltagex_ »

uniformlyrandom wrote: post #8

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

Having done this for a few years, I can say that you should get a separate access point and leave OpenWRT for routing / switching only. I also have Mikrotik gear handling >1GBe duties.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#52

Post by the_third_wave »

The first wireless network here on the farm was based around a full tower containing an Abit BP-6 [1] with 2x366MHz Celerons (running at 400 MHz) into which I had placed a PCMCIA to ISA adapter containing an Engenius Senao 200mw PCMCIA Card w/MMCX Connectors [1] and two external antennas. That BP-6 - which used to be my development machine until I got something a bit more up to date - was fairly overloaded since it also hosted out mail, web services, surveillance cameras, file/print/etc services, media services and more. Still, it worked and covered quite a big area both due to the high-power wifi adapter as well as the fact that the antennas were placed on a high central place. I built it in 2003 and replaced it with a WRT54GL after a few years. The WRT54GL was killed by Thor and replaced with an Asus RT-N16 which also got killed by lightning, replaced with another RT-N16 which - you guessed it - got killed by lightning after which I replaced it with a host of cheapo 802.11g routers which also got blown up. Then I installed some large surge protectors (i.e. large and overly expensive MOVs [2]) after which these problems were solved. I now use a bunch of Xiaomi "routers" (flashed with OpenWRT) as access points, leaving the routing to a LXC container on the server-under-the-stairs. The BP-6 stands in the "museum" - that is stuffed away in the barn next to a number of other relics from the past.

[1] https://www.keenansystems.com/store/engenius_senao_200mw_pcm...

[2] https://components101.com/articles/metal-oxide-varistor-mov-...

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#54

Post by fork-while-fork »

uniformlyrandom wrote: post #8

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

I've been running a PC Engines APU2 (https://www.pcengines.ch/apu2.htm) for many years now. It has enough power to route over my gigabit fiber connection. It has mini-PCIE slots for wifi cards. If you want 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, you'll need two cards and run two instances of hostapd.

The software stack is pretty basic:

- IPtables for routing and firewall

- DNSMasq for DNS cache and DHCP

- Hostapd for wireless

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#55

Post by amannm »

shmerl wrote: post #21

Why is situation with wireless routers still so messed up? Barely anything new coming out has proper upstream Linux drivers. Broadcom chipsets are one of the worst offenders, but others are barely any better. Why can't Intel make some?

device or chip manufacturers won't spend the money to develop/support/maintain in-kernel linux drivers if they don't think it will ultimately net them enough of an ROI based on sales of the corresponding device or chip. the market for non-carrier branded, end user hackable, linux based home routers is pretty small and probably shrinking as a percent of the overall market for wifi chipped devices.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#57

Post by unqueued »

johnklos wrote: post #26

Reminds me of creating a wireless access point using an old 80486 laptop and a ORiNOCO Bronze wireless card, a pigtail and an antenna. It was for one of the first free public wireless networks in Tompkins Square Park in Manhattan, New York, in 2001. The bandwidth was provided by alt.coffee, a coffee and Internet cafe. It took some convincing to get the owners of alt.coffee to let me do this because they thought it wo…

John, at around that time you mentioned, you gifted me with my first shell account on one of your coffeshop servers, Reva. I just wanted to say THANK YOU. Up until then, I had read books about unix from the library, and had failed to install Mandrake on my laptop, but being able to access such a well configured NetBSD environment was really helpful and set me on a good path.

I had never been truant from school before up to that point, but sometimes life rewards you for taking risks.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#58

Post by simoncion »

GuB-42 wrote: post #33
uniformlyrandom wrote: post #8

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

Not stupid, but you also have to understand the downsides. I once did that, essentially just a linux PC with extra network cards. It doubled as a NAS too. One issue is simply that when you are playing with it (updates and all that), you won't have a router and you will lose internet access for all your connected devices. You also have to consider power outages (UPS highly recommended) and electricity costs. It gives…

> One issue is simply that when you are playing with it (updates and all that), you won't have a router and you will lose internet access for all your connected devices.

For my system, the only update I need to reboot for is a kernel upgrade. For everything else I can restart individual services, which leaves routing and firewalling completely untouched. And when I _need_ to reboot the thing, it takes right around 30 seconds from the time it stops passing traffic until the time traffic starts flowing again.

> You also have to consider power outages (UPS highly recommended) and electricity costs.

Power outages aren't a concern, as the rest of my networking gear isn't on a UPS. But boy, howdy are you right about the power costs. I've gone from drawing 12W _max_ (read as "_never_") to more like 20W _idle_, and way, way more if I'm performing updates.

> If WiFi is the reason you change so much, you can buy access points and connect them to your router with wires.

Yeah, I strongly recommend this. Separating your APs from your router is a smart move.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#59

Post by simoncion »

rektide wrote: post #42
zekica wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run OpenWRT on ASUS RT-AX53U (WiFi 6 - MT915E) and it works fine - as an AP only, it can manage 800Mbps and routing with no SQM 500Mpbs (using Software Flow Offloading).

Openwrt works fine but it's all so special. Special software running on special hardware. Just having a PC with a good card in it has soundsd greatly appealing for so long. During the PogoPlug/SheevaPlug phase I had some nice repurposed hardware that ran upstream Debian, had good ram, and some capable atheros wifi. It was so nice having a less special purpose system, having just a regular computer that happened to ha…

> Openwrt works fine but it's all so special. Special software running on special hardware.

Doesn't OpenWRT work on x86 hardware just fine? https://firmware-selector.openwrt.org/?version=22.03.3&targe...>

(You can select 32-bit x86 or two other flavors if you don't want to run on x86/64.)

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#60

Post by MathMonkeyMan »

johnklos wrote: post #26

Reminds me of creating a wireless access point using an old 80486 laptop and a ORiNOCO Bronze wireless card, a pigtail and an antenna. It was for one of the first free public wireless networks in Tompkins Square Park in Manhattan, New York, in 2001. The bandwidth was provided by alt.coffee, a coffee and Internet cafe. It took some convincing to get the owners of alt.coffee to let me do this because they thought it wo…

I live in that neighborhood today, and love this story. Don't have anything else to contribute to the conversation.

There are what look like "supernodes" for LinkNYC near the park, and somebody set up receiver hardware on my roof for the other network, but I haven't yet figured out who.

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