Live data from Hacker News

How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

rage.net

21–30 of 105 posts

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#22

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

I switched to generic amd64 machines for my main router and 2 access points and haven't looked back. Each machine has a Mikrotik R11e-2HnD for 2.4GHz (AR958x), and a Compex card (WLE900VX?) for 5Ghz (QCA986x/988x, surplus). I think the 2.4GHz cards are fine with libre software out of the box, but the 5GHz cards want a firmware blob (which I consider the same freedom/security concerns as if the blob were loaded from flash, like the 2.4GHz cards).

I use the 2.4GHz extensively for phones/tablets/NoT devices and haven't noticed any problems with it. I don't actually use the 5GHz too much it but it seems to work. As far as newer technologies, I've never felt the need to squeeze as much bandwidth as possible out of wireless.

The main router has extensive firewall rules (nftables) and VPN links that would be an unmaintainable low-performance mess on a born-to-be-ewaste consumer router. The distro used to be Debian but I've moved them all to NixOS for easier admin.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all, although PFSense is based on BSD rather than Linux. It's incredibly full-featured (with even a complete and polished web UI) and pretty easy to configure and operate, and definitely where I'd suggest starting.

OpenWRT [0] OTOH is actually Linux. Also very full featured, including a GUI (LuCI) that even though some times lags a little behind the command-line and config file stuff, is still pretty good. As another FreeBSD-based alternative, there's the PFSense fork OPNSense [1], which started out as a fork of PfSense after the Netgate takeover and complaints about their openness and support for the community. [0] https://ope…

Oh, I didn't know about the fork - I guess that shows how long it's been since I last ran PFSense. Good to know, thanks!

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#24

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

Build a nice x86 based router between your uplink(s) and your LAN (it can also be your home server), then get cheap wireless routers and run them in access point mode. You can shop for wireless routers than run OpenWRT if you want to customize a bit more.

If you're feeling really fancy, you can built redundant routers and figure out failover; pfsync is available on OpenBSD and FreeBSD which allows for nearly seamless transition of NATed connections. Much easier to manage if you don't have to deal with the scourge that is PPPoE though.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#25
post #18

I used to build Linux router software that would fit on a floppy disk and run it in a 486DX2, for absolutely no reason except it was fun as hell. Made a nice web UI, packed in a ton of advanced features. Wanted to try and start a company to sell little open source routers, but then I found out cheap routers were quite hard to make money on, so I became a sysadmin instead and mostly browsed Slashdot for 10 years. My b…

> Linux router software that would fit on a floppy disk and run it in a 486DX2 I thought this was me that posted this and forgot I posted it. I did this exact thing with same equipment back in college. My reasoning was slightly different. I did do it just for fun but also I wanted to run multiple computers and servers and the university was pretty strict on the one computer per connection rule.

In the early days of consumer broadband, routers/switches were these exotic things and the cable companies absolutely would not support the configuration.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#26
Reminds me of creating a wireless access point using an old 80486 laptop and a ORiNOCO Bronze wireless card, a pigtail and an antenna. It was for one of the first free public wireless networks in Tompkins Square Park in Manhattan, New York, in 2001.

The bandwidth was provided by alt.coffee, a coffee and Internet cafe. It took some convincing to get the owners of alt.coffee to let me do this because they thought it would be bad for business. I had to convince them that people who could afford laptops with wireless weren't renting their computers, but they'd likely buy coffee. It worked :)

The laptop ran NetBSD and was installed in the awning of Accidental CDs a few doors down from alt.coffee because they were open 24/7, so someone was always at the front of the store. It routed its own private subnet that the NetBSD router in alt.coffee NAT'd and provided public IPv6 via 6bone.

I used 10BASE2 coax cable so I could run it along the building and nobody would mess with it, because it blended in perfectly with all the cable TV coax running on the outside of the building.

Aside from replacing the hard drive once, it ran for several years before regular access points became affordable.

What fun!

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#27

This is a wild Time Machine. ISA cards. 28.8 upload. Thanks for sharing.

And the fact that determining the true lat/long of one's location was best done by using mapquest.com (ah memories...). Unscrambled GPS for civilians didn't come along for another couple years.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#28

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

It's a great idea.

It's a bit of a pain the ass from a hardware sense. OpenWRT is available & easy but there's quite limited hardware (newely no wifi6), but honestly, at this point, I'd much rather use a real computer and some add-in cards.

Alas availability of hardware- specifically AP grade cards & things to plug them into is forsakenly awful. One has to scrounge around for increasingly absurdly priced botique adapters with awful availability. Thankfully we're starting to see m.2 form-factor show up, but it used to all be mini-pcie or just mini-pci, which wifi and only wifi uses & is hard to find. Oh and for real AP grade cards, they have good sized heatsinks and sometimes require auxiliary DC power, which is just like two test point stubs you have to freeform find power for.

For a while Compex was making cards eith equivalent-ish performance (same chipset) to a popular longrunning openwrt router, the Netgear x4s, for significantly under $100. But modern AP chips are super hard to find last I checked, had huge-ish boards, and were over $200.

Its a long hope but AP over USB is something I did for a long time & was never quite right & I eventually gave up, after trying dozens of chipsets, but folk like MediaTek seem to be far lower bullshit than the past shady ass sorrid sad history of wifi, and it feels like it may come about again. The ideal world is that like a $100 wifi usb card would just work. And then we could potentially seed these cheaper things all around; not as powerful or capable maybe, but more than made up for by having much smaller cell size: the actual cure-all of wifi!

Im excited for a world where we get beyond openwrt. It's been great but it's a tight narrow specific fix, on a troubled set of platforms, with a lot of constraints. A small PC-based revolution would be great to see. Just run Debian or Arch, what you know. Have standard & upgradeable componentry for cards. It'd be nice for wifi to not be so very very special & bundled.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#29

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

Firewalla, Pretectli, and plenty of Amazon/AliExpress vendors sell little mini PCs with a bunch of ethernet ports. I use one running NixOS as my home router.

Re: wifi cards, I've not seen any wifi cards that seem like a suitable replacement to a dedicated AP. I just use a consumer Asus router in bridge mode instead of router mode.

Post reply on HN