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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#571

Post by xboxnolifes »

Gigachad wrote: post #537
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, no! Maybe some people get their social life from work but many don't. I have 1 friend I've made during my entire career that stayed with me after the job ended. The others I've lived with, or went to school with, or met following other interests. If you just mean socialising with colleagues, sure, I do that. But they aren't my good friends.

We are dismantling every place people form new friendships and then wonder why young people are becoming more lonely.

I agree, and it's a problem. But out of every place being dismantled, I'm ok with dismantling the workplace.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#572

Post by mustini »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #488
pxue wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…

> Making friends as an adult is hard. Pick a social hobby. Pick up sports, hiking / running / reading / trivia / sports groups. Take a class. Take up a cause - volunteer your time at the local farm, shelter, political office.. Kids don't go to school with the goal of making friends. The friends are a byproduct.

This is very easy advice to give and oft repeated, but I’m deeply skeptical that this is something that works for most people (unless we substitute friends with acquaintances).

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#573

Post by lolinder »

dsugarman wrote: post #546
lolinder wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're the most honest pro-office person here. Everyone else is making justifications that dance around this idea that they need the office for the human connection. What you describe is very real and I understand that it hurts. I think what's happening is that we're in the shaking out phase where companies are deciding whether they'll be remote/hybrid/office. Each company will make that decision based on the…

Put yourself in the executives shoes for a second, they're not stupid people, they know how large the risk of blowback is and how many employees they might disenfranchise or lose. They're that confident that remote work is a bigger threat to their long-term performance and they don't want to get lapped by the companies with an in-office culture

This argument is an appeal to authority that I just can't buy. You don't have to be a stupid person to succumb to your own biases, you just have to be human, and plenty of executives make irrational decisions based on their subjective feelings.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#574

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

Gigachad wrote: post #537
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, no! Maybe some people get their social life from work but many don't. I have 1 friend I've made during my entire career that stayed with me after the job ended. The others I've lived with, or went to school with, or met following other interests. If you just mean socialising with colleagues, sure, I do that. But they aren't my good friends.

We are dismantling every place people form new friendships and then wonder why young people are becoming more lonely.

No, we're really not. People still live together, people still go to school together, people still have interests out of work, people still go to bars and clubs.

The office may have been a good place to make friends for some young people, but certainly not all.

I was quite lonely in my early twenties. I had moved away from home and university and all the people I knew. It's quite normal. And nobody worked remotely.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#575

Post by Volundr »

lairv wrote: post #430
cal85 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> frankly that feels like a you problem It's also a me problem, so there's at least two of us.

At least three you can count me in as well It's funny how people (in this thread and in general when the topic comes) find infuriating the idea of making friends or just socialize at work, when most friendships starts because some people happen to spend 8h/day at the same school/university

> It's funny how people (in this thread and in general when the topic comes) find infuriating the idea of making friends or just socialize at work

I have yet to see someone find this idea "infuriating". What people find infuriating is people who want to drag everyone else back to the office so they can pretend we are friends.

> most friendships starts because some people happen to spend 8h/day at the same school/university.

"Most" feels very strong here. I have exactly 2 friends I am still in touch with from high school, unless you count social media connections. None from college, but admittedly, that was a pretty isolating time in my life due to the combined demands of work and school. Anecdata, but looking at my friend group, I'd say this is pretty representative. Which is a perfect example of why I advocate strongly for finding friends outside work. Turns out "we were forced into the same building" just isn't the basis for a lasting relationship people hope it is, and these often dry up when the constraint is removed.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#576

Post by calsy »

Dragging us back.. says it all really. The majority of companies weren't supporting remote work as a new flexible way for their employees to work. They were supporting remote work because it was the only way to get ANY work done at all during the pandemic. There is always value in face to face interaction and compartmentalising work from our personal lives.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#577

Post by AdrianB1 »

kelnos wrote: post #354
AdrianB1 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard the opposite, but I haven't seen any proof in any direction. What I read is that office space in NYC is still expensive, but occupation rate is lower than ever.

I don't think the person you're replying to is talking about office rents. Residential rents are still high, so clearly people still want to live in NYC, regardless of whether or not they're working in an office or work from home. The number of people who want to live in cities seems to be pretty similar now to what it was before the pandemic. I don't think urbanism is dying, or, if it is, it's not because of remote…

I would like to revisit this in 3-5 years, without an office there is less motivation to live in a very expensive city like NYC. As leases expire and companies close even more offices, we'll see where all this goes.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#578

Post by scrollaway »

mustini wrote: post #572
givemeethekeys wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making friends as an adult is hard. Pick a social hobby. Pick up sports, hiking / running / reading / trivia / sports groups. Take a class. Take up a cause - volunteer your time at the local farm, shelter, political office.. Kids don't go to school with the goal of making friends. The friends are a byproduct.

This is very easy advice to give and oft repeated, but I’m deeply skeptical that this is something that works for most people (unless we substitute friends with acquaintances).

It’s often repeated because a lot of people make friends this way.

My board game buddies are my closest real life friends, and I met them exactly like this.

However people do need to accept that not everyone makes friends the same way.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#579

Post by barefeg »

ravenstine wrote: post #547
nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

> People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. Yeah... good luck with that. Not to say that people don't make friends outside work, but there are many variables involved with that. But just use Meetup.com, right? Sure, if you want to spend a few hours with people of retirement age, not if there's anything wrong with that. Not having friends is j…

Completely understand your point of view. In my case, growing up I was interested in computers, and back then (late 90’ early 00’) kids my age were not into that. So after school I would roam forums. I would some times exchange IM with people I shared interests with, and chat with them every day. Most of them were adults and young adults, I didn’t know where they lived, how they looked, or their names. However I never felt the need to meet them in person. And my interactions felt as real (or even more) than interactions in the physical world.

Fast forwarding to now, I find myself mentally fine when working from home. Of course things are different since I have family to interact with at home, but for me, not engaging with colleagues about non-work related things is what makes remote work not as fun as the olden times. This is also harder to arrange because my colleagues would rather go out or do something else rather that keep chatting with me about something else.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#580

Post by Gigachad »

sekai wrote: post #389
ttul wrote: post #60

Employer here. We had a fancy brick and timber office. It was beautiful and centrally located. I let the lease expire in 2021 after everyone went remote for the pandemic. There has been no sign of any decay in productivity. It is true that hanging out in person develops a sense of human connection that feels good. But is that needed for effective work? I’m not so sure. Brainstorming and creative collaboration activit…

> It is true that hanging out in person develops a sense of human connection that feels good. But is that needed for effective work? I’m not so sure. Especially questionable in an open-plan office, everyone is trying just to concentrate and are wearing headphones.

That was the best of both worlds. Headphones on, you're focusing, standing around the coffee machine, you're open to chat. There is really no signal for remote that someone is open for a random chat.
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