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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#531

Post by The_Colonel »

giantg2 wrote: post #467
joxel wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re not just a code monkey than those chats are great for coming up with new ideas and fleshing them out over time. But hey you can also just be a code monkey that completes projects assigned to them. To each their own I guess.

Yes, and people can be assholes if they want. Maybe what you describe works at some places or for specific people. Many companies will ignore your ideas. Your title is code monkey and that's all you do - shut up and listen to us important people. Some managers are very threatened by their subordinates, or are unimaginative. The business side generally wants what they want. God forbid you suggest some new approach.

I think you're missing the point, this is not about the split between management and engineering. Code monkey is here somebody who accepts assignment and produces code, without having a lot of understanding for the larger whole.

And that's mostly what you get with this attitude that doesn't value any meetings / communication which doesn't relate directly to one's work.

But the organizations don't want to have code monkeys (typically), because to produce value, people can't just churn out code to complete assignments, they need to also understand the context, be able to identify made up problems, be able to design the most minimal solution covering the business needs etc. That requires understanding, certain alignment, communication.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#532

Post by dsugarman »

Far too many of these posts since the pandemic, it's OK if you personally feel more productive at home but if you seriously can't understand the benefits of working together physically then you have a serious mental block. There's some emotional reason why you don't want to hear why people find office work productive. You should at least be able to recite an opposing argument if not empathize with it (let alone agree with it). If you can't do that then you can't make a logical decision and instead you're making a faith based decision. A plug I make to everyone and I'm surprised more engineers don't engage in it; therapy is usually helpful in debugging what's going on in our brains and how our emotions are affecting our ability to navigate with logic.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#533

Post by MrScruff »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #339
garciasn wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a Sr. Director. There is nothing but non sense in any claims that say random shout outs as people are breezing between one unnecessary meeting and another are useful. It just doesn’t happen. The only useful conversations are thoughtful, planned, and collaborative. Almost never what happens in a hallway nor in most meetings, frankly. Let’s dispel with any of this outdated thinking. Remote work is here to say and i…

Sorry but what ??? “The only useful conversations are thoughtful, planned, and collaborative”??? That’s so wildly untrue and obviously so, I’m blown away that you could declare something so obviously false so confidently. Where do you work? I’d love to short that company’s stock.

I feel like with a lot of the hardcore anti return to the office people the arguments are disingenuous. People have built their lives (and in some cases moved entirely) based on being able to work remotely 99% of the time, and they refuse to accept there are any disadvantages. I saw Sam Altman say the other day that he didn’t think any of the important companies in the next period of time will be fully remote, and I would agree.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#534

Post by virtual_void »

roncesvalles wrote: post #489
virtual_void wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re assuming your feelings about how other people make meaningful relationships are universal. It can be true for you yet untrue for others. It seems a bit much to state it as fact.

Establishing a common goalpost is critical to even discussing this topic. I agree that "meaningful" is personal and subjective, but it's also incorrect to take the lowest common denominator definition of friendship as the valid one.

Totally agree re your first sentence. The second sentence is stating things as fact with regards to how you feel about relationships.

I don’t see how a persons feelings about how they think about relationships can be invalid.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#535

Post by brewdad »

hypothesis wrote: post #462
lairv wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least three you can count me in as well It's funny how people (in this thread and in general when the topic comes) find infuriating the idea of making friends or just socialize at work, when most friendships starts because some people happen to spend 8h/day at the same school/university

It’s funny how people find it necessary to participate in in-group/out-group dynamics/politics at work, long past high school. What if one could get paid for doing a job without any of that by skipping “socialize at work” altogether?

That works fine until your workplace is 3 people or more. Human nature can’t be wished away.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#536

Post by ipaddr »

kccqzy wrote: post #498
nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

You are confusing between friends at work and the employer itself. Layoffs are irrelevant: your friends (including those at work) will support you if you are laid off, unlike your employer. Also, once you make a friend at work you can meet outside the workplace, or communicate with non-work communication channels.

But you won't because the reason why you spent time together was someone paid you to. How many people are you still hanging out with the company you worked 10 or 5 years ago? Very few if any..

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#537

Post by Gigachad »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #437
pxue wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…

Ummm, no! Maybe some people get their social life from work but many don't. I have 1 friend I've made during my entire career that stayed with me after the job ended. The others I've lived with, or went to school with, or met following other interests. If you just mean socialising with colleagues, sure, I do that. But they aren't my good friends.

We are dismantling every place people form new friendships and then wonder why young people are becoming more lonely.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#538

Post by ttul »

sekai wrote: post #389
ttul wrote: post #60

Employer here. We had a fancy brick and timber office. It was beautiful and centrally located. I let the lease expire in 2021 after everyone went remote for the pandemic. There has been no sign of any decay in productivity. It is true that hanging out in person develops a sense of human connection that feels good. But is that needed for effective work? I’m not so sure. Brainstorming and creative collaboration activit…

> It is true that hanging out in person develops a sense of human connection that feels good. But is that needed for effective work? I’m not so sure. Especially questionable in an open-plan office, everyone is trying just to concentrate and are wearing headphones.

We were guilty of this. Open plan all the way. It was - to reflect back - horrible.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#539

Post by christkv »

herghost wrote: post #416
nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I'm happily married, children, dog, several distinct groups of friends, great job at a great company, lovely house in a nice village, etc, etc, etc. I worked from home for about 4 years as a freelancer and found it incredibly isolating (but lucrative, so endured it) but finally had enough and get a permanent job back in an office. This was 5 weeks before what would be the first of sever…

I've worked from home for more than 10 years and after covid I signed up for a co-working space to go a couple of days a week, work and hang out. Since everyone is doing different things than what I do, I love it. Designers, sales, photographers, lawyer and other IT peeps.

Always someone to chat with when taking a break and getting a coffee.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#540

Post by xylo »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

I have the same feeling of solitary confinement. I now dream of working at Costco or Whole Foods to have some social interaction.
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