Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#511

Post by lampington » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:28 PM UTC

0xB31B1B wrote: post #127

mostlysimilar wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can find very committed senior talent in latam for 120-160k, the US equivalent would be 180-250k, and the latam folks are less likely to job hop or negotiate a higher comp in month 12 Disagree. Quality engineers will ask for their worth regardless of location. Also I think indexing on "less likely to job hop or negotiate salary" is short-sighted thinking. You're asking people to do a complex job where the key s…

Employees in the bay and NYC have more opportunities and thus more negotiating leverage. It doesn’t mean they’re better at the work. Hiring in competitive locales does mean more brain space dedicated to “how do I retain this employee” and less brain space dedicated to “how can I make my customers happy and grow my business” which is a losing trade. The winning play is pay top of market rates to labor in low cost loca…

"Fire them quickly" isn't always easy in some jurisdictions, though, at least without some very careful planning -- and sometimes not even then.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#512

Post by Gigachad » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

givemeethekeys wrote: post #488

pxue wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon that's just bullshit. Once working, you spend 8h a day with a group of people. It's by far the easiest way to make friends since the needed repetition of making contact (a minimum requirement for friendship) is already solved by going to work together. Making friends as an adult is hard. Work is the easiest shortcut in establishing meaningful relationships with strangers. Edit: addressing some of the comments b…

> Making friends as an adult is hard. Pick a social hobby. Pick up sports, hiking / running / reading / trivia / sports groups. Take a class. Take up a cause - volunteer your time at the local farm, shelter, political office.. Kids don't go to school with the goal of making friends. The friends are a byproduct.

I’d argue the socialisation is just as important as the formal education.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#513

Post by lowken » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

If you live in any medium to large city there are countless young professional organizations available. Join one or two and get involved. Be willing to volunteer for committees and participate in events and you will quickly have a full social calendar. Junior Achievement is one great organization. Jaycees is another organization.

Young Republicans or young Democrats are a couple of great organization. Want to meet young people who are going places in their life? You will meet them in these organizations.

Do you like exercise and fitness. Look into Team in Training. This is a fundraising arm of the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. Sign up for one of their races Go through the training and fundraising process. You will me lots of other like minded people. After your race consider becoming a Team in Training coach.

The possibilities are endless. If you are lonely it’s by choice.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#514

Post by Volundr » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

asdadsdad wrote: post #434

Volundr wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you and doubt nothing about your plight, but frankly that feels like a you problem. I can sympathize while also rejecting the idea that I should have to come into the office so your not lonely. Have you considered a co-working space? It seems like that could get you what your looking for. Beyond that I'd look to get creative around finding ways to get social outside work. A martial arts or social dance class f…

This is much more than a one person's problem, but it's a general issue that many older people with well-established lives don't sympathize with unfortunately. As much as others can deny, work is source of most people's friendships, relationships, mentorships, and other social interactions. There's hardly a substitute for that outside.

> This is much more than a one person's problem

100% agree, that was poor phrasing on my part, it was meant to communicate where the responsibility for fixing the problem lies, not claim the problem was isolated to a single, or even small number of people.

> There's hardly a substitute for that outside.

Strongly, 100% disagree. Work friendships tend to be fleeting, causing job loss or retirement to be isolating events. Yes lasting friendships can and do form in the workplace (I've formed some even while working remotely!), but getting laid off is a great way to discover just how many of those work friendships were of convenience.

Meanwhile there are tons of ways to meet people outside of work. Dance classes, workshops, exercise classes, book clubs, beekeeping clubs, etc. I submit that a person who can't form friendships outside of work is unlikely to form the lasting kind at work, and is better off in the long run examining why that is, rather than papering over it with a temporary bandaide.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#515

Post by onion2k » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

I slip into depression because the only thing I want - to be able to go into an office - will not happen for me.

There are tons of companies that still have offices. Get a job with one.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#516

Post by gtvwill » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

I feel ya, try being a remote area drillers offsider. Week after week, in the dark on night shift. No radio to even hear another humans voice because there isn't any reception in the middle of nowhere. No one to talk to. Hella wrecks your mental health.

Makes you appreciate the jebus out of f2f hands on trades. Stuff where your actually involved with people and the results of your work aren't a constant reminder of how detached from society you truly are.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#517

Post by jgalt212 » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

My reasons:

- I like easy access to my crew

- I feel like people goof off when WFH. I know I do.

- For most people (not all) office work is better from a mental health perspective than WFH.

- For most jobs (not all), the work is more easily performed at a high level in an office environment with easy access to colleagues and resources.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#518

Post by danaris » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

This is actually a symptom of a much larger problem with our society as it exists today, which is that we've systematically dismantled all our communities and support systems outside of work and the (immediate) family.

Humans are social creatures, and for the vast majority of human history, we've existed in communities of various shapes. Evolutionarily, psychologically, and even physiologically, it's not healthy for us to be going to work for 8 hours—with or without people—then retreating to a home with just our immediate families 5 days a week, (nearly) 52 weeks a year.

The shift in zoning after WWII to heavily prioritize hard separation between residential and commercial areas (motivated, in no small part, by racism) is a major culprit in the creation of this new lifestyle, and disruption of previous forms of order. (Though I believe the first big shift was probably the Industrial Revolution.)

I don't have much of a solution to offer in the short term, because it's not a short-term kind of problem. However, I do know that there's a movement called Intentional Communities[0] that's supposed to be working on counteracting it; perhaps you could look them up and see if there's anything in your area.

[0] https://www.ic.org

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#519

Post by otikik » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

> I tried to join clubs and a maker space, but no time - I was working all day

That’s your decision. Very convenient for your employer. Perhaps not so convenient to you, given that you are getting depressed.

> My team can't get enough remote work - they're not going to go into the office.

That’s their decision.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#520

Post by RichEO » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

herghost wrote: post #416

nostromo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in person isn't the issue here -- not having friends is the issue. People do make friends at work, and that's a good thing. But it should never be your primary place of making friends. (Friends and family won't lay you off like a job might. Having a network outside of work is critical if that ever happens.) Asking your coworkers to come into the office just so you can get some needed face time with other peop…

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I'm happily married, children, dog, several distinct groups of friends, great job at a great company, lovely house in a nice village, etc, etc, etc. I worked from home for about 4 years as a freelancer and found it incredibly isolating (but lucrative, so endured it) but finally had enough and get a permanent job back in an office. This was 5 weeks before what would be the first of sever…

I don’t know where you live, but have you considered finding a “third place” to work from or frequent at lunch or after work?

I’ve found that working from a local cafe, in my little suburban “village” centre has been really fantastic for this. I work, I bump into people I know, I meet new people and get to know my neighbours. It’s great.