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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#111

Post by iknownothow »

eerikkivistik wrote: post #6

Some problems are solved faster by multiple people getting together in front of a whiteboard and drawing. For those kinds of problems it’s useful to have people in the same room until we have AR solutions that can fill that need. Also for some people, not leaving their home caused significant issues in their performance. People aren’t solitary creatures, so for some - the office fills that role. For others, home offi…

Sorry but in my opinion you can't beat free styling with Excalidraw and a bunch of nerds leaning back in their own basements and home offices thinking deeply and being critical of ideas.

The overhead of having such meetings is next to nothing in remote compared to the office. No one has to get up to go to a meeting or book a meeting room.

Did you just have a eureka moment 5 minutes after a meeting ended? No problem! Ping the group chat and get on a call in less than 15 seconds while the idea is still hot in memory.

Oh you want to pick up where you last left off? No problem, upload last meetings Excalidraw file and start editing.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#112

Post by barbazoo »

n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

> There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes.

> That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ.

As an employer it's your job (via delegation) to facilitate how people (can) collaborate with each other. Relying on people doing that for you during their breaks is just lazy and poor leadership.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#114

Post by sf_manager1 »

I have 4 employees. We're in person because the extra 1-2 hours of programming they do here, they do on issues I urgently raise and directly affect the bottom line.

And while I would trust any of them to work remotely, I would never hire someone to work exclusively remotely.

I have only met one person in my life, ever, who has asked for exclusively a remote arrangement and wasn't trying to take advantage of us, and the guy was practically a wizard of engineering and deserved whatever arrangement he wanted.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#115

Post by system2 »

Maybe does not apply to high-tech companies but I personally witnessed fintech company employees slowdown almost to halt. They stopped working and did not finish many of the tasks unless managed in person. Majority of employees find ways to watch netflix/hulu/youtube even on company laptops (or play games). They miss the first minutes of meetings, you can hear them eating stuff and plate sounds in the background while talking to them. Unless the employees are career driven, they stop working and find ways to do bare minimum to get their paychecks. That's why.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#116

Post by thewebcount »

n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

> There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes.

I’ve literally never seen this. I’ve seen people sit around and gossip about coworkers or talk about the latest TV shows or movies or sports, though. (And nothing wrong with that. We can’t think about work for 8 hours straight.)

> That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on

That’s the exact opposite of my experience. The first few months were awkward because it was slightly new and assumptions were made that we’d be back in the office in a few weeks. But as time went on, everyone became much more productive. But that’s just my office, not everyone else’s.

> Finally, everyone being remote is really bad for younger/newer employees who completely miss out on networking, mentorship, company culture, etc.

That’s total speculation. When I was first hired out of college, I had 1 colleague I was kind of close with, but rarely interacted with outside of work. The majority of my friends were people I met in real life around town.

> if you do a good job arranging your life (as most software engineers absolutely have the means to do) you can make a commute a quite pleasant part of your day and create a healthy separation between your work and your life.

Or you can just turn off your work computer and do something else to create that space, like hang with your family or friends.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#117

Post by QIYGT »

n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

> I’m also an Urbanism nerd and don’t want to see cities revert to the 70s-era trend, which is clearly and noticeably happening, destroying decades of progress on livability.

There's more demand than ever before to live in NYC, as evidenced by record high rent prices. Cities don't need to be about offices.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#118

Post by harvey9 »

joyfylbanana wrote: post #66
irrational wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposite for me. At home I start working when I wake up and often don't stop until the evening. When I go into the office I have to get ready and commute, and then at the office there are so many distractions - our campus has fantastic fitness facilities and I'll often spend a few hours each day over there. So, at home I probably work for 10 hours. When on campus I probably get 4 hours of work in, if that. Plus, I am…

It is always the employees telling these stories, but how managers are supposed to know if they are really working? When they are at the office the see it with their own eyes. Common counter argument to this is that the manager sucks because he/she can't measure the work otherwise. But from managers perspective it is much easier to force people to be on-site than fix his/her own problems.

Person you replied to said they spent hours in the company gym during office hours. Either they are delivering what's expected of them anyway, or the manager has no idea what to expect regardless of in-office or remote working.

They also mentioned avoiding other distractions: That's the main feature of remote for me, after many years of wearing headphones all day in various offices.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#119

Post by moonshinefe »

irrational wrote: post #37
josefrichter wrote: post #2

Not an employer. But I believe most employees simply put in less hours when working from home, and most employers aren't very good at rewarding people for their results, not their hours.

Opposite for me. At home I start working when I wake up and often don't stop until the evening. When I go into the office I have to get ready and commute, and then at the office there are so many distractions - our campus has fantastic fitness facilities and I'll often spend a few hours each day over there. So, at home I probably work for 10 hours. When on campus I probably get 4 hours of work in, if that. Plus, I am…

Same here, started my first fully remote job semi-recently. I've got a nice quiet area to work and the worst interruption I get is maybe my dog drops in for some pets. The productivity and satisfaction remind me of when I was way younger and used to code for fun before it became a job, so I actually kind of enjoy it.

Like maybe I go afk 30-45 mins here or there when I normally wouldn't in office. But for me, I put in more hours overall. A key to this was learning to not have my personal laptop open to the side, and avoiding distractions like social media and idle browsing.

YMMV of course, I think it can really depend on the person and their life situation. But the same could be said of anyone remote or not when it comes to productivity. It's on the managers to measure if things are getting done or not, which is the most important thing.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#120

Post by merb »

I dislike remote work, because I live in a small apartment which means I don't have a special room for work and that leads to the fact that my work and my free time sometimes aren't clearly separated anymore. I also think that there are people who are good at remote work and people who aren't, the people who aren't mostly abuse wfh, while the other group strifes in it.
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