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U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

cnbc.com

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#761

Post by KennyBlanken »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #294
KennyBlanken wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like the large size is mostly just solar panels (I'm assuming that's what they were; they could have been 'sails' to help steer it) and their scaffolding. From some of the available photos there's two wings, each with eight panels. There's a tradeoff between the weight of the solar panels vs simply using batteries (though batteries don't like the cold, and solar panels do), so I think maybe they were hoping…

especially compared to satellites It is a lot easier to take pictures and collect data at 60,000 ft (balloon) than from a satellite in low earth orbit, which is closer to 6,000,000 ft.

Okay, genius: explain how easy it is to generate as good imagery at 80,000 feet (almost ten times the typical aerial imagery altitude) from a platform being buffeted and spun and tilted by the wind with the weight restrictions of a high altitude balloon.

Now compare that challenge to simply setting up a shell company and purchasing 15-30cm commercial satellite imagery in their choice of bands.

Commercial satellites can generate 15-30cm images good enough to tell what make and model a car is in a parking lot. https://blog.maxar.com/earth-intelligence/2020/introducing-1...

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#762

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

galangalalgol wrote: post #573
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the system is designed in a way that you have neither a say nor healthy representation America is the most powerful civilisation in the history of humanity. In almost every election, nonvoters could swing the outcome. On almost every issue, practically nobody reaches out to their representatives. Participation is hard. Many of us have more important matters to tend to. That’s fine. But don’t characterise participat…

I think the relevant quote is something like "people get the government they deserve" or "if you want to know who is to blame you have only to look in the mirror"

Both of those quotes seem glib to me. Short of rebellion or revolution, the government we get is simply the government we were born into.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#763

Post by minikomi »

DonHopkins wrote: post #470
themodelplumber wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To say nothing of the nicknames and jokes they'll hear for the rest of their life....

"Balloon Boy No Hoax" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVbV_Sis99o&t=1s

Definitely had a different theme in mind for this event

https://youtu.be/qvfWRGzvP50

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#764

Post by KennyBlanken »

jki275 wrote: post #554
ttul wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think F-22 pilots get to paint their aircraft. It would destroy the stealth coatings, which are so specialized they are measured to the milligram when removed (to ensure an adversary hasn’t taken some for analysis).

Where do stories like this come from? Simple logic would tell you there is no possible way to weigh an aircraft coating to a milligram and verify that it matches a somehow measured precise amount applied to the aircraft. The concept is ridiculous.

[flagged]

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#765

Post by thrwawy74 »

stcroixx wrote: post #132
pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

[flagged]

Would you define communism?

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#766

Post by KennyBlanken »

ttul wrote: post #478
remarkEon wrote: post #466

Sidestepping the geopolitical issues with this for a moment ... What advantage is there to using a high altitude balloon for surveillance? I have to imagine there are some - like longer loiter time over a specific point, maybe better optics because you are still in atmosphere, it's obviously cheaper than launching a satellite - but I don't really know enough about this kind of hardware to say. Or maybe the point wasn…

One of the most technically challenging things about reconnaissance satellites is dealing with the high speed at which the satellite moves over the target. A balloon flies much lower and vastly more slowly. It can loiter over an area, sucking in electronic signals and taking photographs with extremely high fidelity. I don’t think the Chinese meant for this balloon to cross the United States. I believe they were testi…

...but a satellite is a stable platform, and a balloon is anything but.

After your "weighing paint" comment I think you should probably stop talking.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#767

Post by h0l0cube »

SoylentYellow wrote: post #751
sgtnoodle wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being overly generous in attributing competency/capability. Just thinking about the physics of it, robustly jamming an unknown signal of a transmitter 60KM high seems like a rather impossible task. If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. The authorities in charge have no real idea what's going on or what th…

> If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. Interesting that you think modern jamming works that way. It doesn't.

Can you describe how it works?

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#768

Post by Fatnino »

vkou wrote: post #719
NegativeLatency wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could’ve actually been a “science experiment” just launched at the behest of the military as a test like you say. So they’d have plausible deniability like the “fishing boats” in the South China Sea

Why would there need to be any plausible deniability for flying a spy aircraft over another country? The U-2 spy plane did just that, as did Project Genetrix (Unmanned surveillance balloons), and then later, the SR-71 Blackbird, and as much as the Soviets complained, complaining and shooting at them was pretty much all they could do. They shot down/recovered so many Project Genetrix balloons, in fact, that their left…

Is the US supposed to not complain now just because the USSR got to complain first?

If something flies over your country, you get to loudly complain about it and shoot at it.

If you are able to hit it too, good for you.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#769

Post by sudosysgen »

SoylentYellow wrote: post #751
sgtnoodle wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being overly generous in attributing competency/capability. Just thinking about the physics of it, robustly jamming an unknown signal of a transmitter 60KM high seems like a rather impossible task. If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. The authorities in charge have no real idea what's going on or what th…

> If the air force were somehow broadcasting several megawatts of broad spectrum noise over a populated area, somebody would have noticed. Interesting that you think modern jamming works that way. It doesn't.

Barrage jamming very much is still used. Sometimes there is nothing else you can use.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#770

Post by mike_d »

za3faran wrote: post #734
heartbreak wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw it from my car today while driving before I knew it was going to be in my area. It was very visible to the naked eye. It was large enough that the perspective made it seem a lot lower altitude than it actually was.

Not sure what the CCP is thinking. Are they simply trying to instigate a response with such a brazen display?

As a data point: previously spotted surveillance blimps in the Asia Pacific theatre use a clear balloon. Either China wanted to see if it would be detected, or is woefully behind the US equivalents.
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