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U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the system is designed in a way that you have neither a say nor healthy representation America is the most powerful civilisation in the history of humanity. In almost every election, nonvoters could swing the outcome. On almost every issue, practically nobody reaches out to their representatives. Participation is hard. Many of us have more important matters to tend to. That’s fine. But don’t characterise participat…

It's not that participation is hard , it's that more and more see it as completely ineffective. Every year more of my friends and family abstain from voting. The system is broken, many choose not to play a fixed game.

> many choose not to play a fixed game

Just remember, there are those for whom this is an explicit strategy. When less people vote, they are advantaged, so they try to make you cynical, hoping you won't vote.

If you think about it, this is actually one of the few strategies that can work for a small minority to maintain power over greater numbers against their own interest. It's hard to get you to actively vote against your own interest. So the next best thing is to convince you not to vote at all - so then they still have a chance with their smaller numbers.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#662
post #338

I have been in "no politics, no news" mode for over a month. I try to do this about once a year. I have yet to tell my wife I do it, but when I am on this limited media consumption she always comments how pleasant I am to be around. I think it is a good thing for all of us to do once in a while, until 80 years ago most news was at best three or four days old, go back 120 years and you're getting only last weeks top t…

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably agree. Allowing the rival to surveil you to an extent is not a bad thing. You want to reduce informational asymmetries because rival leadership often fills in the fog of war with assumptions of malevolence which then leads to escalation risk. It's a tale as old as time in the history of geopolitics and cold war rivalries. The fact they shot down the balloon after it left airspace rather than just as it ent…

Shooting a balloon down over land risks having it come down on someone. Though there really isn’t a lot in Kansas/Nebraska/South Dakota, they would probably not have gotten unlucky, but if they did the Republicans would have pounced also.

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#664
post #64
post #4

I actually think it might just be a stray weather balloon. If they considered it a security threat they would've downed it before it reached continental US. Overall it's a fair resolution. It's a good political move to raise public awareness of tensions with the PRC (you'd be surprised how many people don't know). Downing it is mostly symbollic and completes the safety narrative.

> I actually think it might just be a stray weather balloon. Most experts seem to think that is unlikely because its payload was much larger than a weather balloon needs. It's also got some sort of maneuvering system that you don't find on most weather balloons, or even on most non-weather high altitude balloons. Generally, balloons either have no maneuverability at all, or they can go up and down. Since the wind oft…

> Generally, balloons either have no maneuverability at all, or they can go up and down. Since the wind often blows in different directions at different altitudes that gives the up and down ones some ability to control their course by going up or down to a layer going the right direction.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the balloon was maneuvered by anything more than up and down control. But if you have a link I’d like to take a look? This is the best I could find so far:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-ballo...

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sputnik 2.0 It's a serious warning that the U.S. is dangerously behind China when it comes to balloon technology. Note also, balloons are one way of colonizing Venus (floating high in the atmosphere without having to approach the dangerously hot surface). Clearly we need a Venus Balloon Program to show who's the technological leader on this planet, just like with the Apollo Mission. Mars is for wimps, real explorers…

"Spending huge sums of money on space exploration is a much better use of government funds than getting involved in ground wars in Asia" What if you are able to save tens of thousands of human lives by getting involved in that ground war?

It's going to cost hundreds of thousands or millions, won't it?

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is quite obviously lying about this being a weather balloon. You can see in the video about the NOAA weather balloons how small they are. The balloon that was just shot down was huge and was being actively maneuvered.

There are so many companies building airship prototypes of similar scale, Occam's Razor suggests its benign. It's like seeing your first satellite and being convinced it must be military.. This isn't the Sputnik era of ballooning by any stretch. https://aviationoutlook.com/airship-manufacturers/

Wouldn't any legitimate airship have some sort of required transponder or tracking beacon? If that had failed, wouldn't a responsible company step forward and identify themselves once it became an national security incident?

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#667
post #4

I actually think it might just be a stray weather balloon. If they considered it a security threat they would've downed it before it reached continental US. Overall it's a fair resolution. It's a good political move to raise public awareness of tensions with the PRC (you'd be surprised how many people don't know). Downing it is mostly symbollic and completes the safety narrative.

I’m not in the defense industry neither know how the Chinese spy agency works but I guess there are more covert ways to spy than sending a 20ft ballon half way around the world.

20ft payload. Making this a very large system as far as high altitude balloons are concerned. The balloon is about the size of a football field

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#668
post #338

I have been in "no politics, no news" mode for over a month. I try to do this about once a year. I have yet to tell my wife I do it, but when I am on this limited media consumption she always comments how pleasant I am to be around. I think it is a good thing for all of us to do once in a while, until 80 years ago most news was at best three or four days old, go back 120 years and you're getting only last weeks top t…

For what it's worth, I'm not sure this is healthy; you should be able to consume news without having it effect your mood so negatively. Might be time to talk to a therapist about it.

most news and politics are tacit exercises in emotional manipulation. i'll leave it to you to decide which emotional states are most valued.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#669
post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe but... it seems clear enough they did not do this given that it seems to have been piloted through a very nice high-value course across the US

Weather balloons aren’t piloted. I don’t think it had any control planes at all, beyond just floating along atmospheric currents. At best they can control elevation? Ok, googling a bit: > Is it possible to steer or otherwise control a typical high-altitude balloon? It can be controlled, but let me be careful about what I mean by that. Balloons go with the wind. And so the only control that a balloon has is: in some b…

Wind directions vary by altitude. This was the whole premise of Loon (google), and aiui that part worked well.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#670
post #338

I have been in "no politics, no news" mode for over a month. I try to do this about once a year. I have yet to tell my wife I do it, but when I am on this limited media consumption she always comments how pleasant I am to be around. I think it is a good thing for all of us to do once in a while, until 80 years ago most news was at best three or four days old, go back 120 years and you're getting only last weeks top t…

For what it's worth, I'm not sure this is healthy; you should be able to consume news without having it effect your mood so negatively. Might be time to talk to a therapist about it.

I disagree and while I think I understand what you're saying I'm surprised by it.

News is often intentionally devicive, misleading, and salacious for a reason. Being affected by propaganda does not come anywhere near a need for therapy. In fact I'd say it is a sign someone has critical thinking and a likely a fair base of information. In the face of the facade of trust clearly lying or engaging in rhetoric, hyperbole, or passive language, the only rational response os to be bothered by it. The contrary runs the risk of being manipulated by whomever for whatever reason. I've switched to a nonpartisian news source and its had a simialar benefit for me.

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