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U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#381

Post by zopa »

chii wrote: post #250
sebzim4500 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall very similar comments a year ago talking about how there was no way that Putin would attempt to invade Ukraine and it was just American jingoism.

While that's true, i think crimea and the associated warm water port (sevastopol) is of strategic value. After the crimean invasion, the mainland of ukraine has cut off the water canal, which meant that the peninsular needs to be constantly supported by the russian mainland. It's not quite sustainable in the long term for russia to do that. The land bridge is their "solution". I don't see taiwan as similarly strategi…

> While that's true, i think crimea and the associated warm water port (sevastopol) is of strategic value.

Russia already had naval basing rights is Sevastopol, before the invasion of Crimea. I don’t think the strategic explanations hold up.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#382

Post by 404mm »

I feel like the balloon takedown was seriously mishandled. Imo it should have been shot down right after it crossed our borders and before it started move over populated areas. That way there would be no surveillance and you could examine the payload. Now that it’s in the water, you may not even find it.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#383

Post by SergeAx »

yohanshi wrote: post #158
pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

As a taiwanese who lurks on hacker news for many years but when I saw this post I had to make an account. You are dead wrong, China is an enemy of the free world, pure and simple. South Koreans and Ukrainians would agree with me here. Especially since China has declared no limit friendship with russia

"No limit friendship" was declared before the current full-fledged war in Ukraine. Since then Chinese rethoric became much more cautious.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#385

Post by daguava »

pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#386

Post by iancmceachern »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #169
iancmceachern wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missles are pretty expensive, the sidewinders they used to shoot out down cost between 200 and 400k

A regular hot air balloon can cost 200-400k and this is substantially larger with more lift capability and had presumably expensive payload and propulsion. Worldview spent millions of dollars on a substantially smaller balloon that granted is capable of a few miles higher flight with less payload.

Not really, a regular hot air balloon usually costs 20-40k, a crazy fancy shaped balloon ised for advertising will maybe push 100.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#387

Post by SantalBlush »

rayiner wrote: post #348
SantalBlush wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US foreign policy is not about spreading democracy. That's a bedtime story told to young Americans who don't know any better. The US is fine working with dictators; it's when those dictators stop playing ball or are ousted that we suddenly want to spread democracy. Noriega, Hussein and the Shah are easy examples.

And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil” is a bedtime story for jaded American teenagers who don’t know any better. If that was true American foreign policy would look a lot different (and wouldn’t be such a money sink). Where’s all that Iraqi oil money again? U.S. foreign policy is aimed at maintaining stability and facilitating liberal capitalist democracy. We don…

>And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil”

It would be more productive if you addressed my comment, and not some comment you just made up.

As for this:

>U.S. foreign policy is aimed at maintaining stability and facilitating liberal capitalist democracy

I believe that you believe this. But I'm not treating it as an axiom, so you'll have to give evidence for it.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#388

Post by defrost »

jasmer wrote: post #320
yongjik wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a South Korean, well, I don't like the Chinese government either, but these aggressive rhetorics don't help. My own country was under decades of pro-American dictators, all the while conveniently enjoying the membership of the Free World(TM): at that point, what does "free" even mean? I'm not saying America is the force of evil; it has done some nice things, and some other pretty horrible things. What I'm trying t…

It's 100% fair to question the geopolitical morality of any nation, especially the US, that's fine - but - as a South Korean, maybe you should consider for half a second the 50 000 Americans that died so that you would not be living as a slave under Kim Jong-un at this very moment. Aside from that more 'humanist' element, there is the geopolitical reality that your sovereignty is still depends on the US. After a war…

> so that you would not be living as a slave under Kim Jong-un at this very moment.

Leaving politics aside, that's some very flawed alternative history thinking there.

The alternative world in which (say) Korean War era "Domino Theory" wasn't so aggresively pursued with military action and so many former Western colonies in Asia (Vietnam, Indonesia, etc) weren't defended from finding their own path post WWII is a world where factors that created an extreme North Korea, and Pol Pot in Cambodia, etc. are absent.

Who's to say where the world would be had Kissinger and friends not been so hawkish.

In Korea at least:

   Nearly 5 million people died. More than half of these–about 10 percent of Korea's prewar population–were civilians. (This rate of civilian casualties was higher than World War II's and the Vietnam War's.) Almost 40,000 Americans died in action in Korea, and more than 100,000 were wounded.
Five million would still be alive, fewer families would have been torn asunder, and the < %1 of the deceased that were US service personal would not have died.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#389

Post by IAmGraydon »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #165
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/32... > An F-22 Raptor fighter from the 1st Fighter Wing at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, fired one AIM-9X Sidewinder missile at the balloon.

So it probably cost >$1M to shoot it down? How much did that balloon cost to make?

What's your point?

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#390

Post by eddsh1994 »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #322
chitowneats wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yohanshi, Thank you for leaving your comment here. You have many friends in the U.S. We are more resolved than ever to ensure your freedom.

I hope we have more who are resolved to not treat an entire country as an enemy based on no evidence at all

You have to be blind to modern geopolitics to say there’s no evidence at all
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