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U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

cnbc.com

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#241

Post by sandworm101 »

hfbff wrote: post #197
sandworm101 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is only boogieman talk, until that boogieman is real. Sending balloons i to the airspace of other countries makes china's intention undeniable: they do not care for any rules-based international system. They believe simply that might makes right. They are a bully. The US just made its counterpoint very clear in the only manner that a bully understands. That balloon will no doubt be cut up and put on display, airin…

Are you saying that the US does believe in a rules-based international system? Let's count the number of countries the USA has invaded vs China...and the government topples with the help of the USA vs China

Yes. Most every one of those invasions was preceded by international diplomacy and coalition building. China/Russia dont care for the UN or building consensus with allies. They are willing to just go on the word of a supreme leader. We might not like the outcomes, but the US does accept that the international stage is governed by rules. That is why a country like canada feels no threat from the US wheras every country bordering China/Russia lives under threat.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#242

Post by inawarminister »

sandworm101 wrote: post #190
pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

It is only boogieman talk, until that boogieman is real. Sending balloons i to the airspace of other countries makes china's intention undeniable: they do not care for any rules-based international system. They believe simply that might makes right. They are a bully. The US just made its counterpoint very clear in the only manner that a bully understands. That balloon will no doubt be cut up and put on display, airin…

>Sending balloons i to the airspace of other countries makes china's intention undeniable: they do not care for any rules-based international system

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/american-u-2-spy...

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#243

Post by scotty79 »

kcb wrote: post #231
scotty79 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess China just discovered a strategy how to drain US of some resources. Just let out a lot of scientific baloons and let the dirft away.

I don't think anyone considers the expenditure of 1 AIM-9, probably the most ubiquitous A2A missile platform in history, a drain of resources.

Money is money.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#244

Post by sabujp »

BrotherBisquick wrote: post #216
sabujp wrote: post #146

Spy balloon cost : $3k - $50k , you can even buy them on alibaba and some other sites: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-hot-sale-surveillance-balloon-with_60454941082.html https://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/jennerjiang/product-list/catalog-1.html?view=0 Cost to shoot down balloon with F22 $400k for the AIM-9X, ~$85k for 1 hour of flight time, so ~$400 - $500k to shoot down one balloon that cost < $50k

I wonder why they didn't just use 20mm.

F22 service ceiling 50k ft, M61A2 vulcan 20mm effective range 2000ft, balloon was at 60k ft

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#245

Post by kcb »

scotty79 wrote: post #243
kcb wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone considers the expenditure of 1 AIM-9, probably the most ubiquitous A2A missile platform in history, a drain of resources.

Money is money.

1000s of AIM-9s have probably expired in storage. Money is relative.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#246

Post by hstaab »

BrotherBisquick wrote: post #216
sabujp wrote: post #146

Spy balloon cost : $3k - $50k , you can even buy them on alibaba and some other sites: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-hot-sale-surveillance-balloon-with_60454941082.html https://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/jennerjiang/product-list/catalog-1.html?view=0 Cost to shoot down balloon with F22 $400k for the AIM-9X, ~$85k for 1 hour of flight time, so ~$400 - $500k to shoot down one balloon that cost < $50k

I wonder why they didn't just use 20mm.

Those 20mm will land… somewhere

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#247

Post by wyldfire »

Salgat wrote: post #203
hfbff wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your point of view, I can see how China is bad and the USA is good. But ask someone whose country got invaded by the USA or whose bloody dictator got supported by the USA. Over here in Latinamerica we still remember the horrible things that the USA did. It seems to me (but I could have a false perception) that China is a horrible bully in their corner of the world (nine dash line and, of course their will to inv…

Every major country has their faults, but the US definitely has a larger surface area for these faults as the only superpower left. On the other hand, as the only superpower left, we're fortunate the US exists as a stabilizing factor for world peace, rather than colonizing the rest of the world like every superpower before it.

> rather than colonizing the rest of the world like every superpower before it.

I guess the colonialism has eased up in the last half-century or so. But the US definitely did our fair share.

EDIT maybe my fellow USians don't see them that way but they definitely were colonized - Puerto Rico, the Philippines, Guam, American Samoa, Hawaii.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#248

Post by dragonwriter »

blamazon wrote: post #99
nocsi wrote: post #47

In previous times, the US would ignore these balloons and quietly take them down. Instead they made a big deal out of it and milked it. Brilliant and opposite of what china expected

The US state apparatus did not make a big deal of this. The media and the public did, and the US state apparatus answered to the media and the public, as is their duty.

> The US state apparatus did not make a big deal of this.

The majority leadershio of the House are not “state apparatus”? Because they were the main source fanning a big deal out of it.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#249

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

zw123456 wrote: post #13
mrandish wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it was to get a day of cell phone intercepts since it would be far easier and stealthier for China simply send a Stingray-type device to one of their thousands of industrial espionage agents already operating in the U.S. to drive it around in a van in whatever area and time period they are targeting. In fact, I suspect they (and others) already do that. I think the purpose for sending the balloon was primaril…

True, although from up there you can collect a lot more than on the ground of course. The US does the same thing over international waters off China. The other concern would be if it has jamming capabilities, you can jam an earth station pretty easily from a balloon and effectively blind our satellites. Even if there is wreckage, you can tell if there is offensive signal equipment like that.

> The US does the same thing over international waters off China.

That's a good observation. Maybe the simplest explanation is China's "force majeure" claim was "true" and this was a wayward airship that was supposed to have transited the US west coast and Mexico or Latin America. Just like U.S. observational activities in international waters, just a little more invasive. Thus, when the military mentions they are tracking a similar balloon over Latin America-- what they mean is they know this balloon was intended to follow a different route too.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#250

Post by chii »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #223
pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

I recall very similar comments a year ago talking about how there was no way that Putin would attempt to invade Ukraine and it was just American jingoism.

While that's true, i think crimea and the associated warm water port (sevastopol) is of strategic value. After the crimean invasion, the mainland of ukraine has cut off the water canal, which meant that the peninsular needs to be constantly supported by the russian mainland. It's not quite sustainable in the long term for russia to do that.

The land bridge is their "solution".

I don't see taiwan as similarly strategic to china. It's more politically motivated - that taiwan has turned into a democracy that is pro-west, right on their door step, instead of "returning".

On the other hand, an invasion of taiwan is something that can be used to quell domestic problems...

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