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The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

efinancialcareers.com

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Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#111

Post by TillE »

photochemsyn wrote: post #31

Writing new C++ code with all the modern approaches and tooling doesn't sound so bad. Troubleshooting a big legacy C++ codebase is probably something that Dante would have included in his Inferno as a punishment for pride and hubris.

Speaking as a professional C++ developer for the past 20 years, I think this sums it up well.

A modern project should be able to use most of C++17 at least. Even if you still need to target some ancient garbage like Windows XP, you can use an MSVC toolchain that supports C++17. That's a good basis to work from.

So your real concern is the moldy old code that's written for C++03, that's still not using std::unique_ptr or anything equivalent. If you're given license to finally rewrite that code to modern standards, that can be fun if it's not a complete mess. But if you just have to live with it, and still write C++03, absolutely not, I would never do that job.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#112

Post by spoiler »

eddsh1994 wrote: post #69
mywittyname wrote: post #45

> Where are all the C++ programmers? People are seemingly scared away from the language by a terrible stigma: the notion that it is a legacy program. I think this is because the pool of jobs for C++ programmers is so small. I took a position as a web dev at a company whose main product was a CAD application. Most of my work was in NodeJS, but occasionally, I'd have to dip into the C/C++ layer to make some API changes…

C++ is here for longer than your career will last. Outside of HN/Web bubbles it's still used everywhere. Chances are you're writing this message on a C/C++ OS running a C/C++ browser engine. NodeJS and v8 are C++ applications. I went to a lecture by Stroustrup once who was asked what he thought of Java and jokingly said he didn't like to be negative about C++ applications. While this is a joke and Java isn't actually…

> Chances are you're writing this message on a C/C++ OS running a C/C++ browser engine. NodeJS and v8 are C++ applications.

That's because there was hardly any mainstream alternatives (sans C, I guess) within its domains (ie systems programming and related field) until recently. That's not to say people haven't wished for alternatives. God knows I have

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#113

Post by PenguinCoder »

Invictus0 wrote: post #43
fwsgonzo wrote: post #2

I guarantee that higher quality pay will give you access to a higher quality talent pool.

The pay is 500k and up

I wish. I've never received an offer that high for C or C++ job. Then again I haven't applied at any trading firms, and I wouldn't be considered Senior.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#114

Post by dietrichepp »

When I talk to people about careers I see a lot of people with the implicit assumption that because something is technically difficult, it should pay well. Of course, when you say it out loud, it doesn’t sound true any more. The correlation between job difficulty and pay is relatively weak.

I do think that one of the contributing factors here is that it’s hard to be as productive in C++ as you can be in other languages. People talk about how amazing C++ is all the time and how it’s got great performance and you can build great applications, libraries, and services with it… but it still seems like the amount of work and expertise it takes to build an application in C++ is usually larger than the amount of work it takes to build the same application in another language.

The same may be true of embedded programming. The embedded programmers I’ve met seem like a smart bunch, but I know that the fact that embedded programming is hard is a double-edged sword—you need to hire expertise to get it done, but it takes more work and expertise to get anything done.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#115

Post by kova12 »

whywhywhydude wrote: post #25

Unless you are doing latency sensitive high frequency trading, why would you use C++? Wouldn’t Go or Java suffice?

If I was picking language for a new project, I would take c++ over golang or Java hands down. Many people don't realize it, but modern c++ is actually very good.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#116

Post by justinlloyd »

I've been writing high-performance C++ since the late '80s, and C a few years before that. I've got three choices; I can earn crap-tastic barely breaking six figures TC writing C++ for a run-of-the-mill application with reasonable work/life balance, or I can write C++ for a fintech earning $400k TC where I'm regularly pulling 70+ hour weeks and abused. Or I can get both bad pay and bad WLB making video games. Alternatively I can go earn $300k TC writing Python with occasional dips into C++ for extra juice with good WLB and my weekends off. Let me think about that.

There's also big, legacy C++ code bases with their own idiomatic way of doing things and every faddish poor practice you can imagine from the past 40 years that'll make you curl up in a ball and cry when you face them.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#117

Post by [deleted] »

htrp wrote: post #39
devnull3 wrote: post #15

I guess C++ is the new COBOL. When fresh out of college, I used to pride myself knowing C++. I used to revel in its complexity because it made me feel a cut above the rest. How naive & stupid I was. I have not worked in C++ for a long time, I cannot climb the mountain of complexity again.

Maybe the new FORTRAN

[deleted]

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#118

Post by franzb »

InfamousRece wrote: post #98
klaussilveira wrote: post #19

Heh. I'm pretty proficient in modern C++, and it is my favorite tool for a lot of things, but my PHP job pays way more than any C++ position available. Did an interview once for Senior C++ Engineer, embedded software in the medical device space. All went good, until the offer: $100k. Articles like this are nothing more than a desperate attempt at getting younger generations to learn said topic, so companies can pay t…

I had an offer from robotics company: 80k and no benefits. I’m not sure where to find good paying C++ jobs outside of finance.

Computer graphics.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#119

Post by ajoseps »

emidln wrote: post #33
jchw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I looked at the finance industry, which was admittedly a while ago, I saw a C++ job that listed the salary as being around $100k. Sounds reasonable. In New York City. Oh . Compare to Google salaries, on levels.fyi for example. I know they're not theoretical or inaccurate because I worked at Google for a while. If you really want to do C++ professionally, that and maybe other FAANG companies seem like they'd…

Salary at an HFT doesnt tell an accurate story. I'd be shocked to learn any quality c++ dev at an HFT pulled down less than 500k last year, and I'd expect most to be well above that.

HFT can cover a wide range of diff types of firms/latencies. Bonus structure also makes it so the salary might not be as high, and bonuses can be contingent on performance. This might be true at some of the larger firms on successful desks, but I don't think it is true across the board.
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