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The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

modernfarmer.com

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Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#61

Post by slackify »

horsawlarway wrote: post #45
Avicebron wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's cool and all to want to work on AI+Robots, because obviously that's where this thought is coming from because who wants to actually work in the fields am I right?\s I think it's more important to think about market fit and margins of farming, in what world is introducing a complex, expensive machine to an already thin margin industry a practical solution? The reason it's inefficient and wasteful isn't beca…

Yes, but fast and cheap is temporary (and the end result is a lot of pain). This is a problem that requires structural investment from government (the populace) but once done, the return on investment seems very high. How do you think the Netherlands are the second leading agricultural exporter in the world right now? Short answer - very efficient greenhouses. To get an idea of just how efficient - they use ~4 to 9 l…

Wow that is astounding.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#62

Post by [deleted] »

horsawlarway wrote: post #45
Avicebron wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's cool and all to want to work on AI+Robots, because obviously that's where this thought is coming from because who wants to actually work in the fields am I right?\s I think it's more important to think about market fit and margins of farming, in what world is introducing a complex, expensive machine to an already thin margin industry a practical solution? The reason it's inefficient and wasteful isn't beca…

Yes, but fast and cheap is temporary (and the end result is a lot of pain). This is a problem that requires structural investment from government (the populace) but once done, the return on investment seems very high. How do you think the Netherlands are the second leading agricultural exporter in the world right now? Short answer - very efficient greenhouses. To get an idea of just how efficient - they use ~4 to 9 l…

[deleted]

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#64

Post by marginalia_nu »

soperj wrote: post #50
marginalia_nu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there is more farm land away from the sea than adjacent to it. How does for example fertilizer from here[1] or here[2] end up at sea? [1] https://goo.gl/maps/Pm4JGesJZ9xELrBB8 [2] https://goo.gl/maps/rzGttw1gMchSWXREA

[1] - down the Arkansas river to the Mississippi, and right out to sea. [2] - down the Danube, and right out to sea.

That still dozens, if not hundreds of kilometers the fertilizer somehow needs to walk.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#65

Post by Overtonwindow »

photochemsyn wrote: post #19

A remarkable amount of the fertilizer applied via modern industrial farming practices is just wasted: > "According to an average of 13 global databases from 10 data sources, in 2010, 161 teragrams of nitrogen were applied to agricultural crops, but only 73 teragrams of nitrogen made it to the harvested crop. A total of 86 teragrams of nitrogen was wasted, perhaps ending up in the water, air, or soil. The new research…

Is this a problem exclusive to outdoor farms, or would vertical/indoor farming help this?

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#66

Post by contravariant »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #41
soperj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the majority of that ends up in the sea, causing algae blooms and killing life for miles around. So worse than wasted.

Surely there is more farm land away from the sea than adjacent to it. How does for example fertilizer from here[1] or here[2] end up at sea? [1] https://goo.gl/maps/Pm4JGesJZ9xELrBB8 [2] https://goo.gl/maps/rzGttw1gMchSWXREA

There's very few places where water does not eventually end up in the sea.

Though if it seeps into the groundwater it may take a geological amount of time.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#67

Post by hedora »

prepend wrote: post #43
Avicebron wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's cool and all to want to work on AI+Robots, because obviously that's where this thought is coming from because who wants to actually work in the fields am I right?\s I think it's more important to think about market fit and margins of farming, in what world is introducing a complex, expensive machine to an already thin margin industry a practical solution? The reason it's inefficient and wasteful isn't beca…

> in what world is introducing a complex, expensive machine to an already thin margin industry a practical solution In the world where it is cheaper than the rising price of fertilizer.

The robots (including maintenance) would also have to be cheaper than sensors and existing automated tractors.

I’m not willing to say it is impossible, but it would be extremely difficult to achieve.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#69

Post by Alex3917 »

photochemsyn wrote: post #19

A remarkable amount of the fertilizer applied via modern industrial farming practices is just wasted: > "According to an average of 13 global databases from 10 data sources, in 2010, 161 teragrams of nitrogen were applied to agricultural crops, but only 73 teragrams of nitrogen made it to the harvested crop. A total of 86 teragrams of nitrogen was wasted, perhaps ending up in the water, air, or soil. The new research…

> A remarkable amount of the fertilizer applied via modern industrial farming practices is just wasted

You can also cut out most of the nitrogen just by using Plant Growth Promoting Bacteria (e.g. azospirillum), but most US farmers don't do that. Without PGPBs, most of the plant's energy is wasted just trying to uptake the nitrogen from the soil. Whereas the with the bacteria, not only do the bacteria produce the nitrogen themselves, but they also do all the work of feeding it to your plants so they can spend their energy growing and producing food instead.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#70

Post by Chris2048 »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #57

Man. Whenever I see these threads, I see a ton of people hopping in with their ideas on how to optimize a critical resource. It's the "heat people, not homes" mantra. I mean, I get it. Every programmer salivates at the idea of writing a super efficient hand crafted assembly routine that blows the doors off of what's on the market right now, and that's good. But I can't help but think... If I wanted to drastically cha…

The one(s) I heard where:

COMMUNISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and gives you the milk it thinks you need.

BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. Then it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows.

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