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Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

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Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#121
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Google Ads 2008-10, and people from outside the company always said, "Oh, I never click on ads!" To which I responded, "Well, someone does, or we wouldn't have all this free food." There's a simple test of your hypothesis, which they can do easily inside Google but it's harder to do from outside: has CTR gone down over the years?

I identify with the "oh I never intentionally click on ads" segment, but I still click on ads mainly on mobile. That's because mobile developers are entirely user hostile like the early 2000s web developers who brought us popup ads. half the time I try and scroll some article on a mobile website these days, I get a banner ad that pops up which I accidentally misclick. I even misclick 'benign' banners on ios native ap…

Firefox mobile makes it possible to use ublock origin to block ads.

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's incredibly easy to detect.

Care to explain? Give me an address that runs an anti-ad-blocker and I show you it won't work.

Someone determined enough to serve you ads through a DNS sinkhole could do something like this: the page injects the ads using js and waits for a pingback that is triggered after the ad is loaded. On a timer, if the ping was not received, the page can inject another ad with hard-coded ip address, instead of DNS.

The reason why this does not happen is that companies understand that someone who hates ads so much they are willing to deploy an ad blocker, a DNS sinkhole, etc will probably not click on an ad either way.

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain? Give me an address that runs an anti-ad-blocker and I show you it won't work.

Someone determined enough to serve you ads through a DNS sinkhole could do something like this: the page injects the ads using js and waits for a pingback that is triggered after the ad is loaded. On a timer, if the ping was not received, the page can inject another ad with hard-coded ip address, instead of DNS. The reason why this does not happen is that companies understand that someone who hates ads so much they a…

Also, note that pfblocker-ng contains lists of millions of (automatically updated) IPs known to serve Ads (or malicious content), redirecting those, too. So unless you are willing to switch precious IPs for your hardcoded IP-Ad-Serving Servers, injection through Javascript won't work either.

The only actual direct consequence to clients I have noticed is that if you directly want to resolve Blocked-Ad-Links, it won't work - e.g., Google usually displays some "Ad"-Links first as results - clicking these won't get you anywhere. For my private LAN users, I think this is a good lecture to have - realizing that you're bullied into clicking valid-looking links that are instead Ads, from people that pay others to distract you from what you were actually looking for, or distort the natural ranking by paying for being ranked first.

I have a printout at our house for visitors who complain about this: They can manually set their DNS to 8.8.8.8 and my router won't interfere (it could, but I found spoofing direct requests to Google's DNS a bit too much).

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but CTR and conversion metrics still matter to ad buyers. It's much more difficult to measure the influence on my subconscious and attribute that.

I think that there is some weird effect in the ad business where this isn't the case. Look at sponsorships or untargeted ads; Red Bull may sponsor someone jumping out of a balloon at the edge of space, but it's probably hard to convert that investment to a number of extra cans of energy drink sold. I see a lot of video ads like that in the same way. Everyone watching Overwatch League is just there idling for in-game…

I work in adtech, and built a product tried to measure the impact of advertising, that Google/Facebook/Twitter all immediately copied. So going to answer from my experience.

> I could never figure out if advertisers don't know what's going on

This is largely not true. The big advertisers all have a pretty good idea of which spends were accomplishing their goals better than others. It's the goals that might not be obvious from the outside; everyone always assumes click-through or call-to-actions but for the big spenders that tends to be pretty low on the priorities list.

> , or they merely don't want to know.

This is also true. So while everyone knows what the underperforming ad products are, no advertising executive wants to be the one sticking their neck out doing the work proving advertising _doesn't_ work. That's their livelihood, once you question the necessity of an established market leader, you're more likely to invite question the necessity of you instead. Is it "Google advertising doesn't work" or "you don't know how to make Google advertising work"?

> I get the feeling that companies value brand perception so heavily they don't know they're getting ripped off by the distribution networks.

When we asked major advertisers and agencies what their top priorities were: all of them put brand safety at the top of the list. Above reach, above cost efficiency, above click through, above conversions. Brand perception is a subcomponent of brand safety. It takes years to build up good brand perception and very few mistakes to undo that progress.

> Or, individual ad executives just want people to talk about their ad at the water cooler, so don't purchase ads to most efficiently use their employer's marketing budget, but rather maximize impressions to inflate their personal brand.

Most ad executives never hear much about their ad campaigns. But if they do at the water cooler in a positive light, you've probably made their whole career.

> Like I said, I don't know; maybe everyone knows about all of these things and they think untracked ad impressions are worth what they're paying. It's a mystery to me, but I'm somewhat surprised the traditional ad industry is alive and well.

Tracked ad impressions are relatively a very new thing for this very old industry. Generally at the scale advertising works at, they don't need full comprehensive impression tracking to know if they're accomplishing their generally unambitious goals, it's easy enough to get a representative sample and extrapolate with statistics.

If you're trying to sell something, it's way easier just tracking how many sales you got than trying to divine how impressions and click through rates could impact sales. There's a bunch of A/B testing going on with how campaign spends are broken out. Different products or regions can be intentionally left unadvertised to use as control to measure effectiveness.

Basically there's a lot of data (and very few it from the adtech platforms themselves, since they had to know this before the era of digital advertising) that supports advertising as a whole works really damn well, and most of the work is just determining what advertising strategies are working better than others.

Plus, the data from Google/Facebook is largely junk anyway (same as everyone else to be fair). Just check out your advertising profile on those respective sites. You'll probably get a big laugh on the accuracy of your interests.

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple TV :(

You can install pi-hole and have your apple tv, you wife's phone and kids tablets sorted out.

does pi-hole work for youtube ads on chromecast?

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, DNS sinkholes silently replace queries by a valid internal IP - to JavaScript, it looks like the resource is loading, but the webbrowser actually just displays whitespace instead of the app. Check for example this page [1] - if you run AdBlock, it will be detected. My page just looks void of Ads with pfblockerng [2]. It works inside Apps (Android etc.) and games or youtube videos, too. There are ways to get aroun…

It's probably still somewhat detectable by noticing that all requests to ad domains are taking a long time to load while requests to non-ad domains are loading quickly. There will be false positives and false negatives, but I think it can be pretty accurate for people who have good network speed.

Requests to ad domains don't take longer - they're faster, since 0.0.0.0 (the sinkhole) will answer the query, instead of some internet Ad IP.

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can install pi-hole and have your apple tv, you wife's phone and kids tablets sorted out.

does pi-hole work for youtube ads on chromecast?

Chromecast has hardcoded google DNS but it only adds bit of complication, you can do it, internet is your friend.

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably still somewhat detectable by noticing that all requests to ad domains are taking a long time to load while requests to non-ad domains are loading quickly. There will be false positives and false negatives, but I think it can be pretty accurate for people who have good network speed.

Requests to ad domains don't take longer - they're faster, since 0.0.0.0 (the sinkhole) will answer the query, instead of some internet Ad IP.

Then the request will fail right, since the https cert doesn't match? Or are you installing a custom root CA?

Loading faster is also probably detectable, especially if there's some request that the server intentionally replies slowly to to aid detection.

Re: Alphabet’s Profit Falls 34% (fourth consecutive drop) Amid Ads Slowdown

#130

The fact that the ad model has worked so well is always a nice reminder of how much of a bubble I live in. Personally I have never intentionally clicked on a Google/YouTube/etc ad. Never. I wonder if the general population has been getting more tech-savvy and skeptical of ads over time, but this change takes a very long time to play out. I sometimes see my dad clicking on ads because he doesn't understand the mechani…

I think your bubble might be very tech heavy. My wife (a millennial) and her friends buy things from ads All. The. Time.

I must also be in this bubble because this blows my mind. I have never bought anything from an ad. Maybe a few times a year on something with really good targeting like Instagram I’ll click on it if it’s interesting and I want to learn more, but I wouldn’t buy it. I just can’t imagine spending money that way, rather than “I need to solve x or do y so I need z so I will find it and buy it”.
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