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The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

davidrozado.substack.com

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Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#481

Post by 735892568 »

mxkopy wrote: post #412
735892568 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing applies when the statement is applied to men or any of the other demographic groups that it's applied to from time to time.

What's your justification for "the thing that applies to black people should be equally applicable to men"? That's what this argument boils down to

I'm not sure what you mean. Everything in the comment I responded to apply to the same extent to women/men and white/black. Both the question in the first paragraph and the statement about crime statistics not being enough. It seems to me that the burden of providing a justification is with whoever wants to treat them differently. Why isn't the question just as applicable to gender? Why are crime statistics enough to come to a conclusion about gender but not race?

We know that there is a large sentencing disparity among both women/men and white/black people who are convicted, even when controlling for everything imaginable. We know that there are significant differences in the social and cultural expectations that are usually placed on both women/men and white/black people, and we know that there are on average psychological differences between both women/men and white/black people. The base assumption and the analysis required to come to a conclusion should be the same. The conclusion may or may not be the same.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#482

Post by yterdy »

antihipocrat wrote: post #363
jonathanlb wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a falsehood. Per the FBI: "White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 59.1 percent of those arrests." https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Relative propensity to commit violent crimes is the key metric here, not overall volumes.

This is a failure of mathematical (and, frankly, verbal and philosophical) understanding. If you have 10 arrests shared between 7 white men and 3 black, with 1 black man having allegedly offended 5 times and 5 white men having allegedly offended once, where do your resources go? Or the opposite, 1 white guy with 5 arrests, 5 split between 2 black men? Howsabout in a country with presumed innocence? In a country - in individual police jurisdictions - with a history, in living memory, of frivolous arrests made for economic purposes? In a country whose only peers in incarceration are dysfunctional, systemic human rights abusers?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#483

Post by golemiprague »

unshavedyak wrote: post #136
hersko wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jews on college campuses [1] and jews in the black lives matter movement [2] come to mind. [1] https://www.frc.org/antisemitism [2] https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/black-lives-matters-jewish-p...

That's definitely an interesting one. Not shared in my group, nor would i understand what "the left" would have against Jews, especially in a religious context. They seem rather innocuous when compared to the more vocal and physical religions. Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews?

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Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#484

Post by SpeedilyDamage »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #459
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Google memo was hateful, anti-diversity, and he got exactly what he deserved (he was fired). According to his LinkedIn[0], he's been working at an unnamed startup for the past 4 years, so it's not like he was "cancelled" in any real sense. And Lee Fang and David Shor are fine? I literally cannot find either controversy you're referencing on the front page of Google or Google News. [0] Not sure I'm allowed to post…

> The Google memo was hateful, anti-diversity, and he got exactly what he deserved (he was fired) Yeah, this is flat out wrong. The "memo" (it wasn't a memo, but the media's gonna media) is publicly available and pretty short so we can trivially verify claims that it was "hateful" and anti-diversity. Notably, Damore's position on diversity via the document: > I strongly believe in gender and racial diversity, and I t…

I think you’re missing the argument here for the red-team/blue-team stuff.

Regardless of team, if someone says or does something reprehensible, it ought to be condemned. That’s what these people did, and seems like they’ve moved on from there. Their lives go on, but you obsess over one chapter of their lives.

Just seems overblown for its own sake.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#485

Post by honkler »

legolas2412 wrote: post #369
jonathanlb wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a falsehood. Per the FBI: "White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 59.1 percent of those arrests." https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Why would you not normalize by population to quote per Capita numbers?

because then it would be apparent that blacks make up 13% of the population, yet commit 56% of violent crimes.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#486

Post by erichocean »

MrMan wrote: post #239
thrownawaydad wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but consider illegal immigration. It is apparently leading to a surge in child sex trafficking, among other ills. But, being against illegal immigration is currently considered "right wing", and in a lot of contexts will get you fired, vilified, and perhaps beaten. There's your example. (I'm a child of immigrants, and don't particularly have an opinion of how much immigration is good. I do, though, believe th…

we need to return to the very high levels of immigration we had in the 19th century, it would really help our population and economy to grow. it will help the country a lot in the long term

> we need to return to the very high levels of immigration we had in the 19th century

As a percentage of the total population, now is the highest level of immigration the US has ever experienced going back to the founding of the country.

The previous maximum was prior to the 1924 immigration act which effectively banned the practice for 40 years.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#487

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

tomp wrote: post #433
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> men have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than women > black people have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than white people It seems way easier to justify that first statement. Are there physiological differences between a black man and a white man that are as significant as the differences between testosterone and estrogen?

The causal relationship between testosterone and violence in humans is weak and disputed. Should be as much of a reason to doubt it and brand such statements as bigotry as “blacks are more violent”, no?

Your second statement doesn’t logically follow the first. It suggests that there is a similar claim of a cause for the statement that black people are more violent which is as strong (however weak and disputed) as the claim of this cause of testosterone.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#488

Post by negidius »

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #329
hersko wrote: post #7

From the article: "AI systems that are more lenient on hateful comments about one mainstream political group than another feel particularly dystopian." I agree 100%, and this seems like a huge issue.

[flagged]

That's not an accurate representation of the problem. It's more like:

    Comment A: Muslims are evil.
    Comment B: Christians are evil.
It's a terrible idea to treat Comment A and B differently. The same applies whether they are talking about religion, gender, race, nationality, or anything else. You have thoroughly failed when you have built in discrimination into your content moderation system.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#489

Post by jasmer »

avgcorrection wrote: post #410
hersko wrote: post #7

From the article: "AI systems that are more lenient on hateful comments about one mainstream political group than another feel particularly dystopian." I agree 100%, and this seems like a huge issue.

[flagged]

Try a bit harder.

The definition of a woman as being 'someone who defines themselves as being a woman' - and having no relationship to biology, would be considered 'false' by the majority of the world - including ironically the majority of Americnas, maybe even the majority of progressives, and yet, some political groups demand this 'truth' as a moral impetus.

I have Latino friends that would be offended and a bit flabbergasted were you to refer to them using 'Latinx'. It's their right to feel that way.

That somehow 'globalist institutions are benign'.

That social control of major swaths (in some cases 'all') of the economy would benefit everyone.

That having no material border policy is 'concientious'.

I could go on.

And I'm not 'taking sides' other than to suggest that notwithstanding the threat of misinformation (re: the 'Big Lie') over election results and the potentiality for that to develop into a constitutional coup ... the 'sides' have their share of delusions.

And I mean everyone. There are libertarians who believe there should be 'no government' and that would actually work out. Edit: I don't need to introduce HNers to the common delusions of rightist populists, we're rather generally well informed there.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#490

Post by sacrosancty »

avgcorrection wrote: post #410
hersko wrote: post #7

From the article: "AI systems that are more lenient on hateful comments about one mainstream political group than another feel particularly dystopian." I agree 100%, and this seems like a huge issue.

[flagged]

[dead]
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