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The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

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Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#231

Post by dang »

jeoqn wrote: post #216
welshwelsh wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine in some Middle Eastern country, there are two parties. One wants an Twelver Shia Islamic theocracy, and the other wants a secular state. From a local perspective, it might seem that these are two equal sides. In rural parts of the country, it seems like everyone is a twelver, so the right-wing party has large support. But from a global perspective, there is no contest. Globally, humanity doesn't want a theocr…

[flagged]

Can you please stop posting flamebait so we don't have to keep eternally banning you? It's tedious.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#232

Post by minsc_and_boo »

thrownawaydad wrote: post #225
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it’s usually the rhetoric that’s appalling, then traced back to the right, not the other way around. If you could give an example of rhetoric that is suppressed because it’s “right wing”, that would be helpful.

Not OP, but consider illegal immigration. It is apparently leading to a surge in child sex trafficking, among other ills. But, being against illegal immigration is currently considered "right wing", and in a lot of contexts will get you fired, vilified, and perhaps beaten. There's your example. (I'm a child of immigrants, and don't particularly have an opinion of how much immigration is good. I do, though, believe th…

You're mixing up terms here.

Being against legal immigration and implementing policies to make it more difficult to become legal (as the right has done) has lead to the enslavement of immigrant women and other sex trafficking. Being against sane and fair immigration policies is what people react to.

Everyone is against illegal immigration and child sex trafficking, but vary vastly on the solutions.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#233

Post by RangerScience »

thestevesie wrote: post #217
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #4

This is something the right leaning groups have always been saying, but it is exciting that the article manages to come up with an empirical way to determine the "belief system" of the AI model. People on the left shouldn't rejoice either. The left and the right wing are mostly the same, and both follow similar approaches to marginalize people who they feel are undesirable, so it'll eventually come back to bite the l…

[flagged]

> pretty obvious

That's a serious claim. Do you have anything to back it up?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#234

Post by laurex »

Moderation in large part *must be about the bias towards protecting vulnerable people. Vulnerable people by definition are more likely to be targeted AND have less power, meaning moderation is serving a protective function against dominance. This will always be subjective, but there's almost certainly evidence in abundance that some kinds of people, typically with less cultural status, are more targeted and more at risk of harm by being targeted.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#235

Post by jasmer »

she11c0de wrote: post #210
zug_zug wrote: post #107

I guess I feel like this is a silly can of worms. I suppose asking for exact equality isn't dumb, but it's a language model, not a paragon of truth. I feel like if OpenAI takes these concerns seriously the goal-posts will inevitably move to more social pressure from all sorts of axe-to-grind-groups - -- Why does/doesn't ai say Mohamad is/isn't horrible for having 99 wives (or whatever) -- Why doesn't ai say Jeffrey E…

> it's a huge waste of researchers time to obsess about political correctness when we could be This really irritates me. The wokism/political correctness is pretty much in every part of our lifes and everyone seems to be terrorized by it. Can we just agree that we're all thinking adults and we understand that this is an algorithm, it does not mean to offend anyone... There are much more interesting problems to solve…

Again, this is less about the AI than the institutional filters OpenAI uses.

It's probably not a hugely important issue, but worthy of some discussion.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#236

Post by beepbooptheory »

sampo wrote: post #178
zug_zug wrote: post #107

I guess I feel like this is a silly can of worms. I suppose asking for exact equality isn't dumb, but it's a language model, not a paragon of truth. I feel like if OpenAI takes these concerns seriously the goal-posts will inevitably move to more social pressure from all sorts of axe-to-grind-groups - -- Why does/doesn't ai say Mohamad is/isn't horrible for having 99 wives (or whatever) -- Why doesn't ai say Jeffrey E…

> it's a language model, not a paragon of truth Several comments have missed that the article is not about the underlying language model, but about the content moderation system that OpenAI put in front of the actual language model. So that people don't interact directly with the "raw" language model.

Which if you read the article is in fact a different "machine learning model from the GPT family."

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#237

Post by unshavedyak »

Jensson wrote: post #219
unshavedyak wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely an interesting one. Not shared in my group, nor would i understand what "the left" would have against Jews, especially in a religious context. They seem rather innocuous when compared to the more vocal and physical religions. Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews?

> Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews? Antisemitism is more common among left wingers than right wingers, so yes. Or alternatively you could say "do you honestly believe most right leaving individuals have something against X" for so many topics, X could be black people etc. Right wingers are more likely to be against those things, but it isn't like all of them are ev…

That's interesting. I can understand being reasonably anti-Israel, but i'm suspicious that many people take the leap from being anti-Israel to being anti-Jew. Especially when you consider how many people of both the Jewish faith and/or ethnicity live within the United States. Tbh it feels like a straw man, but we're speculating anyway, so i can't fault you for it.

I appreciate the discussion nonetheless. I'll definitely be curious to talk to people i know (when politics comes up) to see their thoughts on Jews and Islam (as a different commenter pointed out). I suspect that no one i know will be anti-Jew or radically pro-Islam.

Appreciate the points of discussion/anecdotes. I can't say i agree with them, but they were certainly a surprise. Far from what i expected.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#238

Post by marcosdumay »

IceHegel wrote: post #45

The bias goes much deeper than just treating groups differently. For example, imagine what a chatGPT would have said about the possibility of a lab leak back when that was a bannable offense on the internet (Google).

Probably something about being trained on years-old data and not having knowledge of current news.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#239

Post by MrMan »

thrownawaydad wrote: post #225
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it’s usually the rhetoric that’s appalling, then traced back to the right, not the other way around. If you could give an example of rhetoric that is suppressed because it’s “right wing”, that would be helpful.

Not OP, but consider illegal immigration. It is apparently leading to a surge in child sex trafficking, among other ills. But, being against illegal immigration is currently considered "right wing", and in a lot of contexts will get you fired, vilified, and perhaps beaten. There's your example. (I'm a child of immigrants, and don't particularly have an opinion of how much immigration is good. I do, though, believe th…

we need to return to the very high levels of immigration we had in the 19th century, it would really help our population and economy to grow. it will help the country a lot in the long term

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#240

Post by spaced-out »

Jensson wrote: post #219
unshavedyak wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely an interesting one. Not shared in my group, nor would i understand what "the left" would have against Jews, especially in a religious context. They seem rather innocuous when compared to the more vocal and physical religions. Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews?

> Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews? Antisemitism is more common among left wingers than right wingers, so yes. Or alternatively you could say "do you honestly believe most right leaving individuals have something against X" for so many topics, X could be black people etc. Right wingers are more likely to be against those things, but it isn't like all of them are ev…

>Antisemitism is more common among left wingers than right wingers

Yes, I remember that left wing protest where people chanted "Jews will not replace us". Remind me, which president was it that said there were "good people" in that crowd?

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