Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

davidrozado.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 697 posts

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#211

Post by pessimizer »

distant_hat wrote: post #103
unshavedyak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, as a quite left leaning person i'd be curious to hear how i or anyone i know (who is on the left) marginalizes a group of people. The worst i can think of is wanting more equal rights for religious groups rather than special treatment of the primary group (in the USA) - which is seen as an attack by much of the right. Likewise i am concerned by the strong emphasis of rural over urban with respect to voting power…

The left's support for Islam directly marginalizes minorities within Islamic countries as well as women and gays fighting for their rights there.

Islam: famous left-wing religion.

Christianity: notoriously tolerant of minorities, supportive of the equality of women, and gay friendly.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#212

Post by qayxc »

sys32768 wrote: post #104

When you have to program an AI to be biased, it's a good clue that objective truth does exist, but it often tends to upset humans.

How so? It's not a clue at all, as the training data is inherently biased anyway.

LLM's are magical and can only work with the data corpus they have. "Objective truth" simply doesn't exist outside the realm of mathematics.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#213

Post by pessimizer »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #38
blueflow wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe "thats right-wing rhetoric" has been the method of suppressing what we found uncomfortable.

Eh, it’s usually the rhetoric that’s appalling, then traced back to the right, not the other way around. If you could give an example of rhetoric that is suppressed because it’s “right wing”, that would be helpful.

No, it's the argument by association that's appalling, because it's dishonest. The rhetoric is usually just wrong. Being wrong is superior to being dishonest. Wrong people can be corrected.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#214

Post by jeoqn »

orangecat wrote: post #202
zug_zug wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'd guess HN is a pretty 50/50 split left/right. I don't expect to see anybody on this post championing this result as the ideal state. So if your image of left is "twitter left" maybe reconsider recalibrating it to "half of hn."

Yeah, I'd guess HN is a pretty 50/50 split left/right. Maybe on economics (I'd say closer to 2/3 left), but on social issues it's overwhelmingly left. What percentage are anti-abortion, for example? The main split seems to be between old-style liberals who support free speech as a fundamental principle and progressives who believe that speech should often be restricted in order to protect marginalized groups.

There are mainstream conservative points of view that posted here get flagged by users and sometimes even by dang himself (you can see it was him when the comment tree automatically collapses, only he can do that)

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#215

Post by pessimizer »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #186
throwaway894345 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not speech about fiscal conservative policies or smaller government that get's censored. When cancel culture was running amok, people were getting fired/reprimanded/harassed for advocating nonviolent protests over riots, for using Chinese words that sound vaguely like an English racial slur, for interviewing Black Americans whose opinions differ slightly from the official narrative about what a Black American…

When people say reprehensible things, they receive an amount of backlash as a result (sometimes more than is reasonable). The backlash has nothing to do with political ideology, however, so not sure why you're bringing it up. If your expectation is that 50% of backlash would be left leaning and 50% would be right leaning, I don't think that's reasonable, but if you think the backlash is because someone is conservativ…

> When people say reprehensible things, they receive an amount of backlash as a result (sometimes more than is reasonable).

And also when people say not reprehensible things.

> The backlash has nothing to do with political ideology, however, so not sure why you're bringing it up.

Then it's strange that it's been intimately connected with looming war against Russia and China, so many intelligence agencies have so many employees that spend 100% of their time on it, and so many congresspeople are making direct requests for censorship on political lines.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#216

Post by jeoqn »

welshwelsh wrote: post #92
jonfw wrote: post #9

I think most people would agree that a lot of the content on the internet is left-leaning. It seems obvious in hindsight, but I'd never considered it before, that training an AI model on that content would introduce a bit of a bias We all know garbage in, garbage out. But liberal in, liberal out is an interesting idea, and I'm not sure how you fix it

Imagine in some Middle Eastern country, there are two parties. One wants an Twelver Shia Islamic theocracy, and the other wants a secular state. From a local perspective, it might seem that these are two equal sides. In rural parts of the country, it seems like everyone is a twelver, so the right-wing party has large support. But from a global perspective, there is no contest. Globally, humanity doesn't want a theocr…

[flagged]

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#217

Post by thestevesie »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #4

This is something the right leaning groups have always been saying, but it is exciting that the article manages to come up with an empirical way to determine the "belief system" of the AI model. People on the left shouldn't rejoice either. The left and the right wing are mostly the same, and both follow similar approaches to marginalize people who they feel are undesirable, so it'll eventually come back to bite the l…

[flagged]

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#218

Post by throwaway894345 »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #186
throwaway894345 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not speech about fiscal conservative policies or smaller government that get's censored. When cancel culture was running amok, people were getting fired/reprimanded/harassed for advocating nonviolent protests over riots, for using Chinese words that sound vaguely like an English racial slur, for interviewing Black Americans whose opinions differ slightly from the official narrative about what a Black American…

When people say reprehensible things, they receive an amount of backlash as a result (sometimes more than is reasonable). The backlash has nothing to do with political ideology, however, so not sure why you're bringing it up. If your expectation is that 50% of backlash would be left leaning and 50% would be right leaning, I don't think that's reasonable, but if you think the backlash is because someone is conservativ…

> When people say reprehensible things, they receive an amount of backlash as a result (sometimes more than is reasonable).

Sure, but we aren't talking about reprehensible things, we're talking about "advocating against political violence" and cultural appreciation.

> The backlash has nothing to do with political ideology, however, so not sure why you're bringing it up

Because it's clearly about punishing deviation from a partisan line.

> If your expectation is that 50% of backlash would be left leaning and 50% would be right leaning, I don't think that's reasonable, but if you think the backlash is because someone is conservative generally, you'd be mistaken.

That's not my expectation, my expectation is that we don't persecute people for moderate beliefs (and no, caricaturing those beliefs to make them sound extreme doesn't count), nor do we tolerate said behavior.

> There are a great many conservatives who can make their ideological arguments comfortably without being offensive. Conservative ideology isn't inherently offensive, but specific human beings say specific things that are reprehensible and when they do, it's called out.

As previously discussed, a lot of people are "calling out" others for utterly innocuous transgressions. For example, my state subreddit is presently arguing that families who homeschool their kids are closet Nazis (that's the very popular opinion on that particular subreddit).

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#219

Post by Jensson »

unshavedyak wrote: post #136
hersko wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jews on college campuses [1] and jews in the black lives matter movement [2] come to mind. [1] https://www.frc.org/antisemitism [2] https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/black-lives-matters-jewish-p...

That's definitely an interesting one. Not shared in my group, nor would i understand what "the left" would have against Jews, especially in a religious context. They seem rather innocuous when compared to the more vocal and physical religions. Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews?

> Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews?

Antisemitism is more common among left wingers than right wingers, so yes. Or alternatively you could say "do you honestly believe most right leaving individuals have something against X" for so many topics, X could be black people etc. Right wingers are more likely to be against those things, but it isn't like all of them are evil, similarly there is more Jew hate among left wingers, but it isn't like most of them hate Jews either.

Most Jew hate today has to do with Israel, right wing is mostly pro Istrael, so most Jew hate comes from the left.

Post reply on HN