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A manifesto on shower temperature control

benholmen.com

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Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#71

Post by waste_monk »

fy20 wrote: post #36
MR4D wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I want one of those for my car!

If you car has an Eco or Power or Sport mode this is probably what it does. On my Toyota, Power mode makes the accelerator more sensitive and Eco mode makes it less sensitive (which is great for snow). Flooring it is the same, regardless of the mode.

You can't even rely on this, on my car the default behaviour is that the middle of the accelerator pedals range of motion is the "sweet spot", and in fact flooring it will trigger the hill climb assist and cause the automatic transmission to go down a gear.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#72

Post by gnopgnip »

thrwawy74 wrote: post #48
gorgoiler wrote: post #45

As a friendly heads up to anyone exploring this space — temperature control is a complex dynamic between many components, chiefly the mixing valve, any local thermostatic dampers in the valve (rarer, but definitely a feature of high end mixers), and the source of hot water itself . Mixer taps are not simply mixing hot water at temperature H and cold water at temperature C. The temperature H which your hot water sourc…

So we need like a capacitor for hot water at the shower head.

Like a showerstart tsv?

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#73

Post by dsfyu404ed »

gorgoiler wrote: post #45

As a friendly heads up to anyone exploring this space — temperature control is a complex dynamic between many components, chiefly the mixing valve, any local thermostatic dampers in the valve (rarer, but definitely a feature of high end mixers), and the source of hot water itself . Mixer taps are not simply mixing hot water at temperature H and cold water at temperature C. The temperature H which your hot water sourc…

All this additional complexity, while great for getting an engineer circle jerk going, is mostly irrelevant if you are using the dial for coarse adjustment and dialing it in by feel and if your shower is shorter than the time it takes to make your hot water supply change temp a meaningful amount.

Shower valves were literally two dumb valves for the first 100yr and they worked fine.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#74

Post by farhanhubble »

Very interesting exploration. However does this assumption really hold for the commonly used valves: >Since temperature has a nearly >linear relationship with control >rotation

I thought the valves have circular openings and the flow changes non linearly, which I have always experienced too.

Just a few days back I was thinking of why no one has thought about linear controls.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#75

Post by dsfyu404ed »

MR4D wrote: post #23
AnthonBerg wrote: post #20

I have a kind of powerful dirt bike. People put “throttle cams” on them for this same reason. Usually you want small adjustments within the lower range of power. When you want the majority of power you usually want close to all of it. Throttle cams are basically an off-center circle. At lower throttle you’re pulling a smaller circle and the throttle moves less. Then when the throttle is opened up you’re pulling a big…

Now I want one of those for my car!

If your car has electronic throttle the engineers (with tons of input from the fuel economy people) have already decided for you.

If it doesn't then the linkage is already designed to be non-linear by adjusting the arc of the pedal linkage vs the throttle linkage.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#76

Post by [deleted] »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #54
thrwawy74 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we need like a capacitor for hot water at the shower head.

Or just active control? Set a desired output water temp, and let a computer constantly fiddle with the valves slightly to keep the output constant. Monitoring the current temp of the input lines would help but not be necessary. I mostly don't like that every few minutes, I have to turn down the cold water a smidge, as fresher colder water from the ground comes up through the pipe. My shower has two valves for hot and…

[deleted]

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#77

Post by nwiswell »

diggernet wrote: post #65
hnuser123456 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just active control? Set a desired output water temp, and let a computer constantly fiddle with the valves slightly to keep the output constant. Monitoring the current temp of the input lines would help but not be necessary. I mostly don't like that every few minutes, I have to turn down the cold water a smidge, as fresher colder water from the ground comes up through the pipe. My shower has two valves for hot and…

You don't need a computer, or even electricity. Thermostatic shower valves are 100% mechanical, and work beautifully. There are models available that will automatically compensate for both temperature and pressure changes, keeping the output temperature constant.

Alright, but can I run Doom on a thermostatic shower valve?

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#78

Post by jnellis »

I've noticed you don't see the pivot type valves anymore where you can just go up and over to hot right away. Most shower valves now are turn-throughs, where you start at cold and go up to hot. Having installed a few now, I think this has to do with the federal law for having a scald prevention device in the valves control (much like having a low-flo device in shower heads.) Both instances, they are plastic and so you can remove them or adjust them later. I think it's just easier to make a scald prevention device for a turn-through valve than a pivot valve and that's why most shower handles suck today. It's just a tiny plastic piece that impedes how far into the hot range the handle will go.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#79

Post by ars »

People should stop buying pressure-balance shower valves, and switch to thermostatic valves. My shower valve is actually marked in degrees on the dial, and you set it to exactly the temperature you want and then don't mess with it - it will adjust as hotter water arrives.
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