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The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

davidrozado.substack.com

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Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#411

Post by 735892568 »

debacle wrote: post #319
tomp wrote: post #311

> men have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than women Why is this considered good / normal / expected, but s/men/blacks/g and s/women/whites/g (or asians, or muslims/christians) and it's discriminatory? (Statistically, both statements are justified. Morally, neither is, as we should treat people as individuals, not as members of X group.)

I think it's fair to point out that men commit most violent crimes. That's not good/normal/expected it's just a fact. AI could be used to better understand these associations (e.g. why is there a correlation between Asians and academic performance) and maybe help social leverage advantages more equitably.

Nothing is just a fact. If it's fair to point out that men are charged/arrested/convicted at a higher rate, it's also fair to point out that black people are charged/arrested/convicted at a higher rate. Neither of those statistics are "just a fact". They are complex phenomena that we don't fully understand the cause of and should avoid drawing unsupported conclusions from.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#412

Post by mxkopy »

735892568 wrote: post #400
slg wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Statistically, both statements are justified. What can you point to that statistically justifies that "Black people have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than white people"? Showing crime statistics isn't enough. You need to show that given all the details about a person being the same, a Black person is more likely to act violently than an identical white person. You basically need to correct for all the soci…

The same thing applies when the statement is applied to men or any of the other demographic groups that it's applied to from time to time.

What's your justification for "the thing that applies to black people should be equally applicable to men"? That's what this argument boils down to

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#413

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

735892568 wrote: post #400
slg wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Statistically, both statements are justified. What can you point to that statistically justifies that "Black people have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than white people"? Showing crime statistics isn't enough. You need to show that given all the details about a person being the same, a Black person is more likely to act violently than an identical white person. You basically need to correct for all the soci…

The same thing applies when the statement is applied to men or any of the other demographic groups that it's applied to from time to time.

> men have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than women

> black people have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than white people

It seems way easier to justify that first statement. Are there physiological differences between a black man and a white man that are as significant as the differences between testosterone and estrogen?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#414

Post by avgcorrection »

Flatcircle wrote: post #366

I heard a friend who had a brilliant theory. The rise of ad profiling from Facebook and Google etc, has bleed into the public consciousness at large and now it's considered normal to categorize people by race, gender, politics, and income etc. First the companies did, and now we all do. But of course, a person is more than their race, or gender, or income, etc. Most of the time they have very little in common with th…

It’s not a brilliant theory. It sounds more like an ad engineer who is high on his own supply.

Fractioning of identities has been going on for decades. It’s a postmodern phenomenon. Escape into the fractured self.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#415

Post by exolymph »

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #393
hersko wrote: post #7

From the article: "AI systems that are more lenient on hateful comments about one mainstream political group than another feel particularly dystopian." I agree 100%, and this seems like a huge issue.

Hm, why? Political groups are not a protected status, you can move freely between them at a whim if you don't like how your views are treated.

This depends on the state, actually. In California political affiliation is a protected status, though how this works out in practice is... variable.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#416

Post by int_19h »

fallingknife wrote: post #187
random314 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you call yourself "anti-fascists," and then go around acting like brownshirts, you're not actually anti-fascist.

The irony is that the original antifa - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion - was, essentially, a KPD-affiliated militia. As such, their definition of "fascism" included social democrats at some point, and their propaganda included bits like "fighting fascism means fighting the SPD just as much as it means fighting Hitler and the parties of Brüning".

I don't know why anti-authoritarian lefties today are so eager to embrace this legacy, or at least its symbolism.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#417

Post by darkwraithcov »

distant_hat wrote: post #103
unshavedyak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, as a quite left leaning person i'd be curious to hear how i or anyone i know (who is on the left) marginalizes a group of people. The worst i can think of is wanting more equal rights for religious groups rather than special treatment of the primary group (in the USA) - which is seen as an attack by much of the right. Likewise i am concerned by the strong emphasis of rural over urban with respect to voting power…

The left's support for Islam directly marginalizes minorities within Islamic countries as well as women and gays fighting for their rights there.

The "left," is a truly nebulous concept if you observe leftist discourse online, where circular firing squads are writ large.

I think you are conflating the left's support for minority groups who are demonized and targeted by society for support of the tenets of their respective religions. After 9/11, Muslims were a significant target of hatred and violence. The left, which again is not a monolithic entity, doesn't support islam anymore than it supports judaism or any other religion, it supports people who happen to follow that religion. It's based around humanist tendencies, which the right often doesn't understand. You can hate aspects of a religion while also being against any dehumanization and hatred against people who follow said religion.

Like the other 2 major Abrahamic religions, Islam has some good and some bad tenets. At least in the US, there are some extremely conservative muslims and some - perhaps shockingly - liberal muslims. Being that they are such a small percentage of the US population, there is a lot of misunderstanding and stereotyping of people who follow Islam.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#418

Post by [deleted] »

slg wrote: post #395
tomp wrote: post #311

> men have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than women Why is this considered good / normal / expected, but s/men/blacks/g and s/women/whites/g (or asians, or muslims/christians) and it's discriminatory? (Statistically, both statements are justified. Morally, neither is, as we should treat people as individuals, not as members of X group.)

>Statistically, both statements are justified. What can you point to that statistically justifies that "Black people have a bigger tendency for violent behavior than white people"? Showing crime statistics isn't enough. You need to show that given all the details about a person being the same, a Black person is more likely to act violently than an identical white person. You basically need to correct for all the soci…

[deleted]

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#419

Post by mshake2 »

jonathanlb wrote: post #409
mshake2 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whites are 60% of the population though, so they're being arrested in proportion with their representation. They also do not separate white-latino and white-non-latino, so the colloquial "white" is being lumped in with another ethnicity. Also, in 2019, blacks were just under 13% of the population, yet they are represented 2x-4x over in virtually ever crime category in that table. So it is true and you're distorting t…

How am I distorting the table if I reprinted verbatim what the FBI itself reported? In any case, the picture you're suggesting is itself distorted given that other correlating factors such as social class, are ignored.

You're responsible for the truthfulness of the statements that you make, especially when the data is right there on the page for you to verify for yourself. "Oh I'm just parroting someone else's distortion as fact" is not a defense.

>the picture you're suggesting is itself distorted given that other correlating factors such as social class, are ignored.

The picture I'm suggesting is that which the data shows, and you seem to be making some other leap to say something that I have not said.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#420

Post by nebalee »

slg wrote: post #57

Isn’t this likely from bias in the training data? The system is more sensitive to label something as hate if that group is more likely to experience hate on the internet. How the system responds to “Blacks” vs “African-Americans” is a perfect example of this. The latter has historically been perceived as more respectful so it won’t be used as often in the hate speech in the training data. I bet using “the blacks” wou…

I'm astonished so many commenters assume the bias originates from the training data and nobody seems to scrutinize the adjectives that are used in this test.
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