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Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

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Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#291

Glad to see this, because they have worked long and hard on this game. For the optimistic, divide ~$4m (post-tax) by team of 2 for ~20 years (they started work in 2002). They've made some money in the meantime obviously, but seeing the final profit doesn't accurately capture the overall investment. Just in case you were thinking of quitting your day job to become an overnight millionaire making indie games.

> divide ~$4m (post-tax) by team of 2 for ~20 years So about $100k per year, per person (after taxes) I know that this is nothing out in Silicon Valley, but for reference, the median income in the US is $19k (net) per year, and about $15k (net) per year in Europe (if you include eastern Europe). I can't tell from your comment whether you feel 100k is high (hence the "optimistic") or low (hence the warning at the end)…

> the median income in the US is $19k (net) per year, and about $15k (net) per year in Europe

That's off by close to half. The median income in the US is around $37,000 [1], the median full-time income is around $53,000 [2] and the median US household income is up over $70,000 [3].

It's also worth noting that those median incomes are paying low tax rates on that income (typically ~15%-20% including federal + state + local + fica, depending on the location).

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

[2] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm

[3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#293
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know this for sure? How big is their company?

I don’t know for sure but 3.5M lifetime sales times 30 is $105M*70% is $73.5M, they have around 30 employees, maybe they pay $200K a year, so that’s $36M over 6 years, netting them $37.5M. I could be way off though.

The game wasn't always at $30. I saw it for $20 a few years ago (regular price) and I believe it was even lower before, like $15, but I'm not sure.

There is also a Nintendo Switch release, so they will have to pay for the Dev-Kit's and licenses which are not cheap. Not as expensive as in the 80's, 90's, early 2000's where a single Dev-Kit could be six figures, but still a significant expense for a indie studio.

So we are already a little bit off from the numbers you posted. I assume, the 30% you cut off is for taxes. Good idea, but Steam and all other platforms where the game is sold also want a piece of the cake. I don't know the numbers for other platforms, but Steam takes 30% of the listed price.

So even with a $30 price tag on Steam, they get $21 after commission. An that is pre-tax... They need to buy hardware for their developers, rent an office, pay developers and so on. So even the founders are not getting rich. A "boring" job in business software can make you more.

Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#294
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the numbers and releases I must say: If they had streamlined their release process to put out releases more often then the revenue might have been more even and better.

Hard to say, working faster/harder doesn't usually mean the quality will remain unchanged, and their user base probably care more about the quality of releases rather than how fast they put out releases.

I'm not talking about working harder or faster, barely anyone could keep up with their attention and dedication to detail, I mean the release process that appears (from the outside in the eye of a webdev who merely does a git push and clicks a button some time later) to be rather crude shipping of the game. They didn't even use version control software 9 years back https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19381634

Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#296
post #191
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reference?

History? In the days before books were common stories were not told from written pages but memory. This allowed stories to change and adapt on the storytellers whims (or forgetfulness). Eventually they were ossified in books, of which many people think they are the 'canon'.

Perhaps "canon" means something other than "you can't change a story."

Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#297
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In any case, their point still stands with the $29k figure. Comparing comp for two people who are working really hard, doesn't really work when you're comparing to a median income that includes lots of people who don't work or don't really work. Similarly, comparing median net income (which includes taxation) with a pre-tax windfall doesn't really make sense, either. Further, we're not adjusting for time value of m…

Anecdotally I know a lot of people who work full time in the US and make well under 30k a year.

Yup... half the people will be below the median.

Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#298
post #97
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As indie game dev myself I totally agree with you, but while DF is special it still had usual marketing compaign and that big release date. My guess it will likely perform even worse than projection since a lot of people who played DF for years bought it more like a donation. E.g more of people who bought it wont actually play it much and game will game less of natural social marketing out of these sales. Again I not…

I can see them earning another $7M over the next 20 years though.

No doubt about that. DF have very commited player base.

Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#299
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are in a post-Minecraft world, so I don't think your criticism has any merit. Minecraft was a sandbox single-dev game that broke every mold and trope, and sold for $4 billion. Me claiming that DF could be worth $100M in a world where Minecraft was worth $4B and is likely worth much more now... not a crazy take.

BTW the view on Minecraft is survivorship bias. How many developers with better games failed?

I am still bummed out that Alien Software didn't manage to finish Neophyte, it had so much promise.

Re: Bay 12 Games has made $7M from the Steam release of Dwarf Fortress

#300
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its possible it still fits the word. The bible is canonical too even though it's basically a pieces of disparate texts. Basically if it's the first and earliest record and the one that everyone looks to as the most accurate source it's canonical.

That's relevant to the Bible, or Shakespeare, or the MCU, because those works' authors have authority in a way the Brothers Grimm do not have authority over folklore.

Bible does not have authority. It simply has a large following. No one has authority over the content in the bible.

For the MCU, yes, by law Disney has authority over the MCU.

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