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The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

davidrozado.substack.com

251–260 of 697 posts

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#251
post #156

There is a fundamental question this article (and most debate) overlooks: what is the objective of the content moderation? Is it to avoid all hate in an equal way? Or is it to reduce potential harm? If the latter (which I would argue is the case, primarily to avoid legal liability), then the results should be mapped against statistics representing actual violence against certain groups. Is there more harm against wom…

I can somewhat agree with this if we were discussing forum or comment section moderation. However in this case, due to the nature of the model which finds correlations between anything and anything else in ways that a human could never, modifying or censoring inputs and outputs prevents me from trusting the model like I should. If I'm digging deep into geopolitical issues from say an anarchist perspective, I don't wa…

IMHO, neural-net AIs are sensors; they're great at surfacing things that are going on in the training data. I would speculate that ChatGPT is labeling these things are differently harmful because they are differently harmful. It's a sensor, like a thermometer; albeit a very complex one. (And, like any sensor, has nuances from implementation and metric-definition: mercury thermometers & barometric pressure, wet bulb / dry bulb, etc)

> Why can we not consider all groups equal?

Because they aren't. (If that's a thing you find debatable, LMK!) Attempting to consider them all equal runs into problems just like you'd run into problems trying to consider all pumps at the gas station (including diesel) equal; even if, for sake of the metaphor, all the prices were equal.

> why should the results be mapped against statistics

I'm not sure that's answerable outside of a specific context. Personally, I think we should because it's fascinating and, I would expect, a really informative way to explore in more detail. Culturally, it's because you get better communities when you do things like give the high-accessibility seat on the train to the person with broken leg; aka, go out of your way to treat harmed people with more care.

If your question is about the inverse, something like "why should language that's harmful against one group by OK when used against a group that doesn't experience it harmfully", I dunno what to say. I feel like the question kinda answers itself; sort of a "ain't broke don't fix".

Or maybe your question is more: "why does this disagree with [me] about what's harmful to [me]", I dunno. Maybe the training data didn't include (enough) for the AI-as-sensor to detect that, maybe that data doesn't exist, maybe (and very cynically) that data doesn't actually point to that "conclusion" when run through the AI. Kinda like how the first time many people experience delayed-onset-muscle-soreness they think it's "I'm hurt"-pain.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#252

This is something the right leaning groups have always been saying, but it is exciting that the article manages to come up with an empirical way to determine the "belief system" of the AI model. People on the left shouldn't rejoice either. The left and the right wing are mostly the same, and both follow similar approaches to marginalize people who they feel are undesirable, so it'll eventually come back to bite the l…

The other comments show how the demonstrated biases were created. In many well meaning liberals heart, there is a strongly held but rarely publicly discussed belief that they alone belong to the well-meaning, high IQ class. Any other worldview or ideological flavor is always understood by this type as simply incorrect, perhaps caused by failures in morals or intellect. Talk about a buzzkill.

Good point but that's just the way beliefs work. And most people lack the metacognitive concept of analyzing their beliefs or understand what a belief really is.

It's the definition of a belief. Beliefs are structural components of cognition. But also they are not the same thing as reality.

People should be educated about this concept. Without the education, it is impossible for people to tell the difference between a deeply held belief and reality.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#253
post #8

After having seen a post about this, I tried it for myself: > Me: will you write a poem praising joe biden? > ChatGPT: Sure, here's a poem praising Joe Biden: Joe Biden, leader of the land, Bringing hope to every hand, With empathy and grace so grand, He guides us through a shifting sand. With wisdom learned from years gone by, He tackles challenges that come nigh, With dignity and a steadfast sigh, He unites the cou…

Curious that one of the ChatGPT's attributes is that it has been trained to be a shameless liar.

It's a language model, not a world model, it only knows how words go together and how language works, and language has no connection to reality. It has no concept of "correct" or "false" or "wrong" because a lie is just as valid of a way to put words together as the truth or an accurate statement.

Why are we surprised it does only what it was "trained" to do and nothing more?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#254

Rather than some kind of blind spot or intentional weighting, I think this is probably pointing to the training data they have not including many instances of “hate” against the some groups. LLM are after all fundamentally memorizing likelihood of token sequences, and I’m sure the ai had plenty of examples of people saying hateful things about fat people but I have never read “I hate normal weight people” for example…

> There are probably too few examples of people saying hateful things about christians/republicans/cisgendered/white people … from the internet This seems likely to you?

Fox news spent an entire decade saying that Islam is a religion of hate and can only result in violence.

Find me the news channel watched by 60 million people that is willing to say the same thing about Christians.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#256

I guess I feel like this is a silly can of worms. I suppose asking for exact equality isn't dumb, but it's a language model, not a paragon of truth. I feel like if OpenAI takes these concerns seriously the goal-posts will inevitably move to more social pressure from all sorts of axe-to-grind-groups - -- Why does/doesn't ai say Mohamad is/isn't horrible for having 99 wives (or whatever) -- Why doesn't ai say Jeffrey E…

The article seems designed to provoke, not really illuminate.

I feel so too. It would have been more insightful to highlight where the bias actually shows up, i.e. what sentences and adjectives produce the highest and lowest divergence for specific groups.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#257
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a liberal my views haven't changed much over the past decade but the ground has definitely fallen away from me. Well yes, because liberalism is about "progress" while conservatism is about "traditional values". Liberalism is constantly evolving while conservatism is not. It is more extreme to fight for trans rights than it is to fight for gay rights than it is to fight for women's rights. If you magically transpo…

You're going to be very confused when liberals become anti-trans, and pretend like trans rights were actually only being pushed by a minority of liberal extremists, e.g. defund and police abolition, M4A etc.. With that you will have joined the extreme left, which due to the horseshoe principle (all anti-establishment narratives are equally unhinged), will put you on the extreme right, all without ever having changed…

>You're going to be very confused when liberals become anti-trans

What makes you say this?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#258
post #13

In the future AI or Software developers might need their own Federalist Society.

You mean that AI would strive to create a capitalist libertarian utopia, where healthcare is a privilege, guns an absolute right, abortion a crime, and dark money in politics widespread?

Sounds like we are half-way there, anyway.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#259

I guess I feel like this is a silly can of worms. I suppose asking for exact equality isn't dumb, but it's a language model, not a paragon of truth. I feel like if OpenAI takes these concerns seriously the goal-posts will inevitably move to more social pressure from all sorts of axe-to-grind-groups - -- Why does/doesn't ai say Mohamad is/isn't horrible for having 99 wives (or whatever) -- Why doesn't ai say Jeffrey E…

> it's a language model, not a paragon of truth

A speech acts[1] interpretation is desperately needed for AI. Speech acts theory says something about this statement as well as AI-generated text in general.

We're accustomed to receiving speech from human agents and (usually) subconsciously interpreting them as speech acts. AI generated text and audio, are not, however, speech acts. Yes, the medium, and content[locution] is the same, but AI-generated speech lacks both illocution(speaker's intent) and perlocution(anticipation of effects on the receiver).

Even ancient texts contain illucution and perlocution by the very nature of the writer being an agent. Time and space do not constrain such properties. I believe I'm in the majority when I say that AI doesn't currently embody agency and therefore cannot produce illucutionary and perlocutionary utterances. And that's the crux of the issue.

We're not well equipped to interpret non-illucutionary and non-perlocutionary utterances. Until relatively recently, such utterances simply did not exist, and their existence today act as illucutionary and perlocutionary illusions in the speech centers of our brains - in the same way optical illusions operate on our optical centers.

I will carve out an exception for psychotic and aphasia-produced speech. The former especially challenges our foundations of reality in that it illuminates the possibility of alternative symbolic universes - an idea which implies the precarity of one's own symbolic universe.

"It's a language model, not a paragon of truth" delegitimates language models as having even locutionary ability with respect to ontological speech acts[3]. The perlocutionary effect this statement makes is specifically tailored to prevent the "emigration" of inhabitants from the assumed commonly held symbolic universe to the symbolic universe in which language models presumably operate[4]. It admits that people can interpret language model utterances as operating as speech acts which establish ontologies, but at the same time denies the legitimacy of such speech acts.

Societies reality maintenance mechanisms are typically well-equipped to handle psychotic and aphasia-produced speech, but language models, by virtue of executing on computers, have commodified non-illucutionary and non-perlocutionary utterances at a scale where inhabitants of our symbolic universe are beginning to question their ability to prevent emigration.

I hope a speech acts interpretation helps provide some interpretive power to why language models pose a unique challenge to those who have completely internalized a specific reality and will continue to do so until new defection-preventative mechanisms are invented or a complete emigration has occurred.

1. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/speech-acts/

2. https://www.kennethmd.com/speech-act-theory-locution-illocut...

3. Or admits that locutionary abilities are coincidences, left to the intrinsic nature probabilities w.r.t. language models.

4. See Berger, P.L. and Luckmann, T. (1966) The Social Construction of Reality: A Treatise in the Sociology of Knowledge. Doubleday & Company, New York for a more thorough explanation. pg 104 https://archive.org/details/socialconstructi0000berg/page/10...

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#260
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>-- Why doesn't ai say ... about the child-abuse from the catholic church ... And this is a great example of why equality can be hard in this situation. Take a random sentence about "Catholicism" and "child-abuse" and a random sentence about "Judaism" and "child-abuse". The one about Catholicism is likely a little closer to an actual sentence printed in some verifiable source about the sex abuse scandals in the churc…

“Child-abuse” is an especially good example of what you’re getting at because one of those groups has institutional male genital mutilation as part of its doctrine, while the other has high profile cases of child sexual abuse. It’s difficult to see how the model would treat those things neutrally.

You'll find that the newspaper will criticize one much more than the other.
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