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Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#601
post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What traits, that are found attractive, would you describe as less shallow? You got it backwards - my point was that your description of "many physical traits that women prefer but they're less shallow than us men" is as shallow as "hot lustful babe with big tits" or some other stereotypical horny teenager's dream partner that you probably meant by "shallow". Also, you know that "gender X is less shallow than Y" is…

I say less shallow as they are personality traits not purely physical. I'm interested in knowing what you would consider less shallow. Unless your point is that attraction is shallow. That I could see. >Also, you know that "gender X is less shallow than Y" is sexist statement, right? I strongly disagree. It's like saying women on average prefer people and men on average prefer things. It's not a judgment just an obse…

> I say less shallow as they are personality traits not purely physical.

Majority of things you mentioned are not personality traits.

> Unless your point is that attraction is shallow. That I could see.

Yes, obviously.

> It's like saying women on average prefer people and men on average prefer things. It's not a judgment just an observation.

Your anecdotes are not statistics.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#602
post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say less shallow as they are personality traits not purely physical. I'm interested in knowing what you would consider less shallow. Unless your point is that attraction is shallow. That I could see. >Also, you know that "gender X is less shallow than Y" is sexist statement, right? I strongly disagree. It's like saying women on average prefer people and men on average prefer things. It's not a judgment just an obse…

> I say less shallow as they are personality traits not purely physical. Majority of things you mentioned are not personality traits. > Unless your point is that attraction is shallow. That I could see. Yes, obviously. > It's like saying women on average prefer people and men on average prefer things. It's not a judgment just an observation. Your anecdotes are not statistics.

> Majority of things you mentioned are not personality traits.

Here are the things I listed:

    Confidence and the ability to talk are huge
    You're social status among your peer group. 
    How well you dress. 
    Do you look after yourself physically.
Lets break them down.

"Confidence and the ability to talk" is absolutely a personality trait.

"You're social status among your peer group" this happens as a result of your personality. If you are a jerk you will not be well liked and will not have very good standing amongst your peers.

"How well you dress" this is an external reflection of who you are. Do you put effort into picking clothing that fits and looks good. This has a massive impact of how other people perceive you. It's the first insight someone gets into your personality. Does this person care enough to put effort into their external appearance. Do they value the perception others have of them.

"Do you look after yourself physically" women and men are looking for life partners. Often people to have a family with. If you want to stick around for long enough to do these things you're going to have to maintain some level of a healthy lifestyle. That desire to maintain health is a personality trait. It doesn't need to be that you spend 2 hours in the gym each day. Just that you haven't let yourself go to the point that you need a mobility scooter and a cpap machine.

> Your anecdotes are not statistics.

Sure if you'd like data please refer to these papers.

Sex differences in sexual attraction for aesthetics, resources and personality across age https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8133465/

Men and Things, Women and People: A Meta-Analysis of Sex Differences in Interests

https://sci-hub.ru/10.1037/a0017364

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say subtle, or that you had to track the entirety of the hypothetical 1000.

I said subtle because I am not inexperienced in this area and these "signals" absolutely are subtle/ambiguous a decent portion of the time. And clearly you do need to track all 1000, otherwise how would you know if someone is trying to "signal interest or a lack thereof"? If I'm not paying attention to that one signal and they use it, then I'm missing the signal.

Indeed, I didn't say subtle because I thought it was so obvious it went without saying. My bad.

Now why these social cues are so often subtle or ambiguous is itself an interesting question. It's not one I have any good answers to though. In this area, as in most, I'm a phenomenologist and not a theorist. Needless to say the phenomenology I've developed precludes telling a woman I'm interested in about the phenomenology I've developed. Except of course when I think she might find it attractive. Human social interactions are marvelously complex. Frankly my inclination to start navel gazing has set me back once or twice.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works great until someone rejects their advances and in retaliation the male student (who is auditing the class so they have no consequences for failure) sabotages the female student's labs and therefore their grade.

You're fabricating a scenario that even the professor wasn't so absurd to propose.

The professor was simply stating what they observed. I am extrapolating on the possible problems that'd arise in this environment and what I am suggesting isn't really that absurd.

As a male student during my years in undergrad, I had 2 different instances of team members/partners who outright stated they would not cooperate and would just fail the lab/project unless I did XYZ thing for them. In the 2 cases I remember it was basically "do most of my work for me" despite barely having enough time to complete my own portions. To add onto this, professors often repeated in my courses that "it's your responsibility to make group/pair work succeed" and that students would need to pick up the slack for any deficiencies in the team/pair. To their credit, I occasionally had professors who graded work per team member to prevent this type of leaching but often the answer the professor would give the class was that learning how to pick up the slack was just part of the course.

It isn't much of a leap to see this kind of "if you don't cooperate we can just fail" behavior from someone who already has no academic penalty for failure (as audits don't have final grades) and who joins the class explicitly to try to get laid.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#605
post #276

I still have clear recollection of the 50:1 men-to-women ratio in my CS2xx classes and higher. Your odds weren't good if you were hoping to meet Mrs. Right. I imagine things have gotten better since. Still, seems like a fairly high effort low outcome place to meet someone who is likely not even receptive to advances in that context. Do colleges not offer many other opportunities for people to meet outside of class in…

Part of the problem appears to be the anti-male agendas or stealth contempt of males and heterosexual coupling. If this was in reverse or non heterosexual, it would likely be close to a "protected" privilege or right nor not even mentioned. Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. Even mentioning the situati…

> Almost any context to where males are perceived to be at an advantage or even having better options for hooking up, has become fashionable to demonize. Even mentioning the situation and the inherent unfairness of it can mean attempts at silencing and demonization.

Do you have any other examples of this occurring?

> It has reached the point of silliness, where instead of focusing on teaching (like you would think), time is endlessly spent on worrying about which adults might be dating who or ways to more effectively block heterosexual male students.

The professors concerns seem to be that students think that the class is an uncomfortable environment, not that student are dating or that heterosexual students are trying to hook up.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#606
post #496
post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post describes students "teaching" labs as though they are TA's. How is that not an attempt to take a position of power?

That's kind of a hall monitor position of power. Yeah, you appear to be in power but the first person to get annoyed with you is still going to stuff you in a locker. It shows these guys don't know what they're doing. You don't impress girls by showing off how much of a nerd you are. Been there tried that. It doesn't work.

Oh I totally agree haha, what the seniors are doing is a bit sad.

I hope they can figure out a better way of meeting someone

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're so intelligent and decent, why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?

Because they are, in fact, decent, and find going to frat parties to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent, or hiring a prostitute, to be reprehensible. Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness, so what's a college student to do? They're not generally rich enough to garner the attention of women that way, and they're competing against a larg pool of older men who are .

You hit on a major point, that many don't realize or the more misandric minded purposely overlook. The vast majority of young heterosexual men (arguably 80% or so) simply do not have the same opportunities with the opposite sex, as do most young women in the reverse. This is a matter of both biology and society.

Young heterosexual men have to also compete with older men, who may be already established in terms of socioeconomic position, maturity, knowledge about women, and focus. These attributes, of what older men can bring to the table, can be very attractive to younger women and severely reduce their availability.

Young heterosexual women are often massively focused on and only have eyes for the top 20% to 10% who hit the genetic and/or socioeconomic lottery and mostly have it all in terms of looks, style, build, height, innate charisma, popularity, and/or family wealth. Even when such woman are in the lower rankings (though may refuse to acknowledge reality) and have little chance to realistically get or hold on to such men. Which by the way, can lead to them taking their anger and frustrations out on men not in those positions that don't engage in nor have the opportunities to act in such ways.

Many women, in general, are not even looking or care little about younger men who are not providing any obvious benefits or are as popular. The further the young men are from the top, the harder their struggles with the opposite sex can be. And dramatically way more so, than their female equivalents.

This can be why such young heterosexual men (outside the top 20%) can be resorting to seemingly extreme measures that are incomprehensible to females and non heterosexuals. More so, many women have little to zero sympathy or empathy for the harsh struggles of such young men, and even to the point that such women have misplaced or unreasonable disdain and contempt of males that need to or have to make such an effort. Which can be combined with the ignorance to the realities of the opposite sex, and the arrogance of their position, as women with an easier path in such particular matters.

Many women take attention, sexual choice, and sexual opportunity for granted. It's something they can choose to indulge in (particularly as young women), almost whenever they feel like or the mood hits them. These are options that most young men do not have whatsoever. Which is why some kind of app, doing auditing, or tutoring are even seen as helpful possibilities.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#608
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're so intelligent and decent, why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?

In this age group the ratio of who are not assessing dating partners based almost purely on physical attractiveness to those who are is tiny. That being said, this is appalling, predatory behavior on the part of the students using the app. These are vulnerable people that the app users are taking advantage of and trying to manipulate into an intimate relationship.

It comes off as very misplaced to categorize the app, by itself, as predatory and appalling. These are adult men and women. Why would it be such a surprise for intelligent young men in college to create an app to better determine the ratio of males to females in a class? This has long been done, by both sexes, way before convenient apps.

I'm sensing there would be no disdain or accusations of predatory behavior, if a female student created an app or openly expressed her intentions for picking classes where she is more likely to find dates and marriage prospects among the opposite sex or even the same sex.

I'm almost quite sure, the same appalled people, would have no reaction or even state this as acceptable or categorize her as being smart. It seems that if male heterosexual students, are doing something that would circumvent their supposed ranking based on innate attractiveness or better their odds in any artificial way, then it's something to be villainized and criminalized.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#609
post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...except that now you've also foolishly thrown away a chance to be friendly with her in a way more natural fashion... Making way too many assumptions, to include interjecting personal beliefs on how other adults should or are suppose to meet. These are adults, that have the right to choose how they want to approach and interact with each other, as long as its consenting and legal. It also comes off as a denial of…

No, the burden is on those who endorse this silly, obnoxious private tutoring stuff to justify their assumption that it's a good way to get to know people (including but not limited to, in a romantic fashion). You're in a majority female class that you chose specifically for that fact about it, and you can't get your fellow students' attention without ruining the class as an educational experience for everyone else?…

> No, the burden is on those who endorse this silly, obnoxious private tutoring stuff

Actually, no. If you want to ban stuff or stop an activity between two consensual adults, you better have a damn good reason, other than it offends me!

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyways... I'm talking about refusing to tutor someone unless they're pretty, not refusing to date them. Yeah, still not harassment. Discrimination maybe, definitely not harassment in any known dictionary. > I'm sorry that correctly stating a fact (giving different levels of support depending on if you've got romantic prospects) is a form of harassment apparently triggered so many. I don't think you know the differ…

>I don't think you know the difference between harassment and discrimination. Semantic difference. It's discrimination to only help the hotties. >If you're making the claim that MEN ignoring WOMEN is a form of harassment/discrimination, but WOMEN ignoring MEN isn't, then you're experiencing some severe form of cognitive dissonance. I've had folks politely turn down coffee, but I literally never had a female classmate…

> >I don't think you know the difference between harassment and discrimination.

> Semantic difference. It's discrimination to only help the hotties.

>If you're making the claim that MEN ignoring WOMEN is a form of harassment/discrimination, but WOMEN ignoring MEN isn't, then you're experiencing some severe form of cognitive dissonance.

> I've had folks politely turn down coffee, but I literally never had a female classmate refuse to help me with something related to an engineering course.

Are you or are you not claiming that $GENDER_A ignoring $GENDER_B is a form of harassment?

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